"How giant can a giant cyborg be?" Topic

Finishing up a gigantic cyborg assault unit for a new faction. Query how large such a cyborg can be as a practical matter so that you'd use it in your games? I mean, how tall in mm? It's a biped. TIA for feedback.

I once used a 200mm toy suitably modified as a Chaos Spawn back in Rogue Trader…

For 28mm gaming though? I'm talking 15mm.

I use a 25mm power armour figure for one of my commanders in Gruntz, I'd feel odd fielding anything bigger that wasn't mech class

As big as it wants to be?

I'd say no taller than 30mm. The girth is probably more important though. It would ideally fit on a 7/8" washer

The "Corsair Battledress" or a bit smaller is a good size IMO for a "giant" in 15mm. The slightly shorter and less stocky ACP Valkyries would probably be perfect. My opinion.

I would say 20-25mm height wise.

If you're talking about largest physically that makes sense to play, I'd say about 90mm tall. Bigger than that and it's too clunky for the sort of tables that I want with 15mm. Doesn't fit down streets, dwarfs buildings, etc.

From a logical standpoint, I'd agree 30mm is the upper end of what would constitute a cyborg and not reaching into the territory of self-piloted mecha. Not that there's anything wrong with 40-50mm battlesuit/small mecha, just not what I would advertise as a cyborg.

Assuming cyborg in this case is meant to be part-human, part-machine, wouldn't about 8' tall be the realistic max? So as others have said, maybe 20-22mm in 15mm scale. If it's part-something-else, part-machine, then that could change I guess.

Does that assume that the cyborg is human or humanoid? Because any animal can be turned into a cyborg (or the reverse I guess -- any robot can have living tissue added).

Edit: was responding to TheDaR but it looks like boy wundyr x answered my question….

Well, Anything could be a cyborg. You could have a dreadnought class starship be a Cyborg, if it was being driven by a Brain and spinal column integrated into it's control.

Largeish, infantry or support vehicle cyborg? Sky's the limit man.

Anything can be cyborged. For instance,

the leviathans in the Avengers Movie were cyborgs.

Moya and Taylon from Farscape, I think are considered cyborgs…

Evangelion are cyborgs!

Robocop 2 is a cyborg human brain in a big mech body.

The protoss walkers I believe are cyborg tanks with wounded warriors as their pilots.

Warhammer 40K dreadnaughts are cyborgs.

Now if you go the cyberpunk route, a cyborg can only be big enough that it doesn't go insane from humanity loss. BUT, if it is a creature genegineered to be a cyborg, it probably would not care what it looks like with proper pyscho-programming.

There was a comic called AS Wars where pretty much everything was a cyborg of some sort.

Right, so what I'm basically asking is how big is too big for a model on your gaming tables?

If it is a giant, I'd want it at least 40mm. Anything smaller is big, not giant.

No larger than 30mm for "humanoid" cyborgs for me.

Depends on how biological it is on the outside, K.

If it has a lot of exposed biological components, ~8 feet tall (~25mm) is probably the max. You're really running hard into the square-cube problem there (350lbs of human, plus how many lbs of cyberware?).

If the outside is all mechanical, sky's the limit.

For example, I bought a few of the Privateer Press Skorne Cyclops to use in 15mm as "Warstriders" (magitech mecha that are 'worn' by a pilot from the Exalted RPG). They're ~55mm tall or more, humans come up to about mid-shin on them. That's ~25 feet tall in scale or thereabouts, and is about as tall as I'd want to go for a 15mm vehicle.

Haywire..don't forget vandamme was a cyborg, in the movie cyborg!

The tv show defiance had cyborg-like guys in it. They were slightly taller than a avg human, but a lot more muscular…..I picture that as cyborgish, it's the one thing I really liked about that show

No larger than 30mm for "humanoid" cyborgs for me.

These aren't humanoid.

be easier if you post a pic.

I think the question should not be focusing on the cyborg part and the real question Khurasan is trying to ask:

"What size the biggest bipedal miniature or model that you would field during a wargame?"

In which case I would say maybe 12 inches in any one dimension.

Right, so what I'm basically asking is how big is too big for a model on your gaming tables?

No more than 6 inches, sorry ive no idea what that is in MM.

@Avamango: that's roughly 150mm

Right, so what I'm basically asking is how big is too big for a model on your gaming tables?

Hrm…

I have a couple of the 1/100 Gundam 00 models (Tieren ground type), and those are ~12" tall. That's too dang big.

I also have some of the 1/100 Macross models, those are mostly 6" tall, though the Glaug/Marauder is closer to 9". Even those are really dang big, but I'd call them the absolute upper limit on size for "15mm" games. At least any game that has 15mm infantry running around, and why would you want to use 15mm if you didn't have any infantry?

depends on the design really. i mean godzilla would be about two feet tall in 15mm scale, maybe bigger. :-)

Well, my table is 4 feet by 4 feet, so anything less than that. Affordable is a different issue.

Why can't you just go all out? If anime can have 50 foot tall alien humans (Zentradei) fight against humans. Why can't you just use a 28mm cyborg battle against 15mm infantry?

I'd certainly have no problem passing off 25mm figures as giants fighting 15mm or even 144 scale figures. This would then be the opening to allow for giant robots on both sides.

@Sargonarhes: It's not too hard to believe an 8-12ft giant (Pandora smurfcats?), or maybe even a ~20ft giant, but that's the tallest I think you're going to reasonably see when you could have short humans and their 2.5m tall tanks around.

Those 50ft Zents (or Arm Slaves, if you're gaming Full Metal Panic) would be 6" tall on the table in 1/100 scale, and that's really my upper limit as far as giant walkers on the table goes. A Zent 'rifle' could easily be a 57mm cannon, and they would likely be engaging each other at a range of 2km or so.

Cyborg? Depends on how big is the original human before the "improvements".

Unless all you use is the brain, in which case pretty much anything goes.

Anything from 10-foot tall "Hector" from Saturn 3:

To this 12-foot "RoboCain":

To this, though the connection to the humans is temporary:

Dan

Why can't you just go all out? If anime can have 50 foot tall alien humans (Zentradei) fight against humans. Why can't you just use a 28mm cyborg battle against 15mm infantry?

That's definitely one perspective -- I think a vote for no limits on size.

My primary interest is figuring out how big is too big for a playing piece on the 15mm tabletop. Not a vehicle but a living thing, or at least a thing with living components.

I went with a 1/144 mecha from Combat Mecha Xabungle, and am certainly not regretting the choice now it's half-assembled and I can see how big it is, at 120mm.

"If it has a lot of exposed biological components, ~8 feet tall (~25mm) is probably the max. You're really running hard into the square-cube problem there (350lbs of human, plus how many lbs of cyberware?).

If the outside is all mechanical, sky's the limit."

Not exactly. Making it out of not-currently-alive material isn't going to help with the simple fact of the proportional increase in size leading to a square increase in structural strength, let alone ability to move, coupled with a cubic increase in mass. (If not the object would probably blow away in the wind. The mass and size figures given in much Gundam source material show them to have the approximate density of expanded polystyrene.) Might I suggest a spider-tank or otherwise multipedal underframe instead? Or shape the thing like a big theropod?

Accounting for super-robot, or at least hybrid of super and real robot, I would have to say not more than the size of a heavy 'jack, a Colossal would look silly anywhere outside of Super Robot anime. In real robot style, the unit that gets above 50mm probably isn't going to be at the front of any assault, it would be too slow. Xabungle kits are good for this, as most mecha in that series are meant as plant equipment, anyway.

Sketch out a design, hold it up on the table and see if you think it looks silly. Better yet, try playing with a colossal and see how unwieldy it is.

My primary interest is figuring out how big is too big for a playing piece on the 15mm tabletop.

Anything past 120mm would start to look out of place, IMHO. Excluding vehicles and buildings.

"Not exactly. Making it out of not-currently-alive material isn't going to help with the simple fact of the proportional increase in size leading to a square increase in structural strength, let alone ability to move, coupled with a cubic increase in mass."

---he's not designing a living thing, he's designing a gaming piece. :-) king kong could not exist but he's not less cool for that. i don't sit there watching any of the kong movies shouting "nope nope nope could not exist could not exist could not exist!!!" lol! i sit and enjoy it for what it is, entertainment.

if we are going to challenge realism there are lots of other things we need to deal with first in sf gaming, like why are humans still using tanks in the 26th century? why are they on the battlefield AT ALL when even now robots are taking over increasingly??? we game the way we game because it's fun, not because it's real……….

I'd say roughly 100 mm would be the big end for me, as far as actually using it in a game.

Yep… its a cyborg. Complete with human for scale

"---he's not designing a living thing, he's designing a gaming piece. :-) king kong could not exist but he's not less cool for that. i don't sit there watching any of the kong movies shouting "nope nope nope could not exist could not exist could not exist!!!" lol! i sit and enjoy it for what it is, entertainment."

So, then, why should we limit one and not the other?

These are 'borg:

And these biotech mecha:

Still going with the maximum 120-150mm. Unless of course you want to have a Super Robot game?

PS I want Cthulhutech miniatures.

"So, then, why should we limit one and not the other?"

what?

Well I've only limited myself using 28mm guys as giants with 15mm guys. Though I could easily go with 1/144 scale humans and 28mm giants, or even 6mm humans and 28mm giants. I keep ending it like that because there isn't much of a call for any scale larger than 28mm, and if you go too much bigger than that it would then probably become too expensive.

So on a 15mm scale battlefield I'd say a 28mm cyborg would be fine enough, but then maybe it could go to 40mm for good measure.

"So, then, why should we limit one and not the other?"

what?"

Why should we limit the size of the flesh and not mechanics?

We ignore the laws of physics because giant robots. Why not the same for an organic structure, or mix of the two? After all, I can't be the only one in this discussion who's ever read more than one story about biomechanical vehicles, buildings and starships. Many of which are more of the bio than the mechanical!