""Need" a million people to colonize Mars" Topic

link

As long as there is NO TAXPAYER MONEY INVOLVED and crackpot billionaires are financing it, go for it.
And by the way, make him absolutely immune to any and all lawsuits while you are at it. That way if his plan is really to feed idiots to the Anthrophagi of Arcturus, good riddance.

Oh, heck. Crosspost to Ultramodern too while I am at it.

Why would you want to colonize "Mats?" ;-)

Good question!
All the more reason we need an "EDIT TITLES" function!

Well, we need to get off this rock at some point, but I don't think a project like this will actually be viable commercially. SpaceX makes money but most of that seems to be gubermint contracts anyways.

A colony on Mars? Hmmmm.. I seem to Totally Recall something about this a few years ago. "rimshot"

Was anybody watching what happened on Jupiter recently? A colony on Mats could end up being all we've got left after it happens here. And it could, and has previously.

I only hope the planners are planning to send the stuff that is humanity's excuse for existing too: baroque music, shogi, coffee beans, Siamese cats, KY jelly, and blueprints to rebuild Sienna and Prague and Kyoto and Salisbury and Chartres….

It is so sad that Space X is the only company that NASA pays to resupply the space station. That's all we every hear about. Maybe Space X is just a squeaky wheel?

Is there any capable competition to them though? I speak from complete ignorance but I thought they had basically cornered the market from lack of competition.

We only have 5 billion years to escape this solar system before the sun goes out. Or invent a time machine and just live in an endless loop.
Better get cracking!

Step 1: Build the space elevator TMP link

Step 2: Build a continuous flight Mars-Earth shuttle (yes, this a real thing). It's basically a space station that travels from Earth orbit to Mars orbit and back without ever stopping.

Step 3: Using this shuttle system, begin sending habitat modules and supplies to Mars orbit.

Step 4: Send an initial construction and exploration crew to set up modules and in-situ oxygen, water and power plants. Crews don't necessarily need to be permanent colonists at this stage.

Step 5: Meanwhile, screen and train colonists. (Screening for both physical, mental and emotional suitability for the permanent trip. Note that certain "nutty" attitudes are probably actually ideal. You've got to want to go live in a bunch of tin cans for the rest of your life, if you're gonna survive on Mars. On Earth, that's nuts. On Mars, it's sensible.)

Step 6: Send the colonists.

I can see how a liability release form would be in order.

And…..
The title has been fixed!

How would this be better than sending 1,000,000 people to live isolated from the rest of us under the sea?

In neither case would going outside unsuited be an option.

Both would have to grow all their food inside, but at least there would be fish to eat in Atlantis. (Do you think Musk intends to set up cattle ranches on Mars, or is enforced vegetarianism part of the deal too?)

Both would be in continual danger of collapse of the structure. (Does Mars have marsquakes? It has volcanoes. Neither would be great for inhabitants.)

At least gravity would be more suited to us under the sea, and communication would be way easier. And evacuation would be possible, such as for people with rare conditions who needed emergency medical treatment.

Both would be utterly pointless, but Atlantis would be much cheaper.

Vote Atlantis!

Atlantis idea doesn't help against Earth being hit by an asteroid or similar, Mars improves the chance of the human race surviving.

Atlantis would be in direct competition for resources with other countries/people on Earth, Mars gives you a completely new set of resources.

As population of Earth increases, probably both will be neede anyway!

Think of the benefits to humanity once the candy bar mines start producing:

How would this be better than sending 1,000,000 people to live isolated from the rest of us under the sea?

Well they couldnt easily get back so, depending on who you send, that could be a plus.

Both would have to grow all their food inside, but at least there would be fish to eat in Atlantis

Depends how deep you are. Have seen the weirdos you get in the deep sea? I bet they dont taste very good.

Both would be in continual danger of collapse of the structure.Does Mars have marsquakes? It has volcanoes

Atlantis would certainly be under continual danger, depending on how deep it is.
Mars City would be in danger from meteorites but not constant collapse.
Mars no longer has any volcanic activity, the last period being around 200 million years ago if memory serves.

Mars also doesn't have any plate tectonics in the same way that Earth does. I don't recall if Mars-quakes occur or not but I imagine if they did they would be rather aneimic.

At least gravity would be more suited to us under the sea, and communication would be way easier. And evacuation would be possible

Gravity is 0.4g on Mars, I dont think we've done any long term experiments on the effetcs of low gravity as opposed to microgravity. Microgravity isnt that great for you, but long term low grav may be survivable/adaptable.
Comms would be "easier" in terms of distance but since storms etc can cut off comms in the sea you might actually be out of touch for longer periods for Atlantis than Mars City.
Evacuation from Mars: yeah you are screwed.
Evacuation from Atlantis: how deep are you? Deeper you are, the longer it takes to decompress, more chance you are screwed.

Both would be utterly pointless, but Atlantis would be much cheaper.

Pointless, not so much. This rock is doomed long term, if we want to survive as a species we need to get off at some point. Mars Ciy could be a stepping stone.
Atlantis I doubt would be much cheaper, unless its some kind of self sustaining mining operation that can send materials to the surface dwellers. There are a lot of challanges in the deep ocean.

"Enforced vegetarianism"?
Naaaahhhhh.
Canibalism.

I think the best place for the human race to expand into is the hole in the earth under the south pole. If we can just clear out the ex-Peenemünde employees who are busy building flying saucers, we'll be laughing…

Personally, I think Musk is a genius but – as they often have – he probably has an ego the size of phobos. Why he hasn't teamed up with Robert Zubrin (Mr Mars Direct link ) escapes me, although I suspect Bob's ego is around the size of Deimos.

Ahhhh – maybe that's the problem :)

About half earth gravity (on Mars) considering that everytime you go outside you'll be wearing a significant proportion of your body weight as an environment suit with spare air sounds like a perfect balance for all the exercise you'll need as a colonist. (If they terraform the place in a few hundred years, people will have adapted by then anyway so no problems).

At some point, we have to get off this rock.

John T

Without a planetary magnetic field, how are the colonists going to protect themselves from long-term radiation exposure?

Without a planetary magnetic field, how are the colonists going to protect themselves from long-term radiation exposure?

Simple answer: live underground. Mars is riddled with lava tubes and caverns. As a consequence of its lower gravity the lava tubes on mars are pretty huge.

It is so sad that Space X is the only company that NASA pays to resupply the space station. That's all we every hear about. Maybe Space X is just a squeaky wheel?

Yep. That's Elon Musk's company. Since his PayPal success his other ventures have been dependent on government contracts and subsidies -- Tesla, Space-X and Solar City. Without US taxpayer support these ventures would dry up overnight. And Musk has a relentless PR machine designed to promote himself as the new Tesla/Edison of our age, while his political machine promotes himself within Congress and State governments for more tax breaks, subsidies and contracts.

To be fair, any industry and company that matters is receiving big piles of gubermint money.
Heck, some car manufacturer or other is building a plant in my state that will give us 400 jobs. So we gave them 20 million dollars of state money.

It's how the game works.

"Enforced vegetarianism"?
Naaaahhhhh.
Canibalism.

Cannibalism.

Two Ns Winston. Tut, tut.

There is no cannibalism in the colony of Bradbury VII.
And when I say there is no cannibalism, I mean that it is relatively under control.

Besides Soylent Green, has any scifi story ever dealt with cannibalism as a major plot point? As a source of protein I see it having diminishing returns and not mathematically viable.

The best way to have a thriving, livable colony of 1,000,000 people on Mars would be to send 2,000,000 colonists.

I remember watching some sort of science fiction writers roundtable show on PBS in the mid-1980s (can't remember if it was a regular thing or what), but it included at least Ben Bova, and I'm pretty sure Asimov and Sagan were there, maybe Bradbury. The subject of the day was generation ships and Ben Bova made the comment that "If you go on one of these, you'll never see your friends or family again…on the other hand, you'll never see your friends of family again."

Certainly there are a number of days where I'd rather be on Mars.

Could be interesting labels on food cans. 'Contains minimum 20% homo sapiens'.

3-D printed hamburgers?

A rather more critical point is that there's apparently plain iron oxide rust that's so concentrated that it will cause instant chemical burns, and that's completely ignoring the fact that a chunk of the red color is actually hexavalent chromium, which is brutally toxic. link

Yeah, don't think I'm going to volunteer for the Mars trip, even though I'd otherwise be a pretty good match (once I lost ~60lbs). Technical knowledge, highly tolerant of confined spaces and seeing the same people for months at a stretch, and generally not going to go psychotic over things. Tested and confirmed via duty as a submarine crew.

"There is no cannibalism in the colony of Bradbury VII.
And when I say there is no cannibalism, I mean that it is relatively under control.

Besides Soylent Green, has any scifi story ever dealt with cannibalism as a major plot point? As a source of protein I see it having diminishing returns and not mathematically viable."

I wonder how the math works on that? If you send a million colonists, and say 10 colonists consume one other colonist a week, how long does the colony survive?

"There is no cannibalism in the colony of Bradbury VII.
And when I say there is no cannibalism, I mean that it is relatively under control."

I see things quickly devolving into a "raft of the Medusa" scenario….

People from Boston will pass on going to Mahs if they can't take their cahs…. ;-)

OFM: "And by the way, make him absolutely immune to any and all lawsuits while you are at it. That way if his plan is really to feed idiots to the Anthrophagi of Arcturus, good riddance"

Here's a win-win … I say empty out our prisons of all lifers, death rows, rapists and child molesters (and people who speak at the theater), cram them into a rocket and light it up. Think Botany Bay.

Hmm. Would it really matter where we shot that rocket?

Dan
PS. The "Mars Needs Women" thing would soon follow. Start with the death row groupies. After all, we gotta start culling the herd to keep it healthy!

Pointless, not so much. This rock is doomed long term,

We'll die out long before the rock's doom is an issue.

100,000,000 years should be time to make it off properly, not half-arsed to a toxic dump of a place that has insufficient gravity to hold an atmosphere, and no magnetic field.

Earth's population is due to peak in the next fifty years. We are getting richer fairly steadily, so will grow healthier. Losing 1,000,000 won't have any beneficial effect on those that remain.

If asteroids worry you, then deploy a full set of shielding satellites. It'd be cheaper than colonising Mars, by several orders of magnitude.

Well we're already half-arsing ourselves to a toxic dump on the rock we live on, why wait?
If there was a mission to Mars tommorrow I'd hop on. They wouldn't take me, I'm a short sighted Zoologist and there aren't so many animals on Mars last time I checked so I'd just be ballast.

You could also be "raw" material for the 3-D hamburgers. There would be a plaque in it for you. A very small plaque but a plaque nonetheless.

rofling

We can't even go back to the Moon and this moron is trying to get dollars for a 'Mars colony'?

rofling

I'm afraid to say Winston I'm mostly bones and gristle so they would be pretty cheap hamburgers.

this moron

And "this moron" is a multi-billionaire, which you and I are not. So comparatively, which one is smarter? I'll leave you to do the math (Musk has already done his).

Besides Soylent Green, has any scifi story ever dealt with cannibalism as a major plot point? As a source of protein I see it having diminishing returns and not mathematically viable.

Aside from the really dang scary idea of Kuru ( link ), the much more critical short-term issue is vitamin B12 deficiency ( link ). Humans don't make B12, we need to get it from prey animals. And people suffering from a B12 deficiency end up with Parkinson's-like symptoms because severe B12 Deficiency causes nerve damage.

Besides Soylent Green, has any scifi story ever dealt with cannibalism as a major plot point? As a source of protein I see it having diminishing returns and not mathematically viable.

Aside from the really dang scary idea of Kuru

Not a major plot point, but cannibalism and Kuru among New Guinea tribesmen is a "scenic" detail in the holo-adventure from the novel Dream Park.

Besides Soylent Green, has any scifi story ever dealt with cannibalism as a major plot point?

Larry Niven's very first publication, the short story "Bordered in Black". An instant classic.

I believe I've still got the magazine it was published in, back in these stacks somewhere. I oughta put it on Ebay, see what it goes for.