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©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Webcatcher23 Sep 2014 1:00 p.m. PST

I'm an experienced miniatures gamer, but new to navals (I've played around with navals a little in the past, but nothing serious). I'm trying to figure out which ruleset to use, and I've scanned the old threads, but I'm not sure any of them address exactly what I'm looking for. I'm primarily interested in smaller, frigate-level engagements, and I don't mind a little complexity to my ruleset. I strongly prefer simultaneous movement and I don't have strong feelings about hex vs non-hex, though if I had to pick one I'd probably go with non. I currently do not own any for-real ship models, but I have plenty of Wiz Kids "Pirates" ships which will work as stand-ins for now, so access to models isn't really a problem.

I own pdf copies of Kiss Me Hardy (which I'll keep around as a beer-n-pretzels game, but don't really like as a go-to ruleset as I wish it made fewer compromises in order to speed up play), and Heart of Oak (I love the sailing rules, but I wish it used simultaneous movement and a lot of people seem to think that the combat rules are lacking).

So, with that being said, what game should I play?

sneakgun23 Sep 2014 1:51 p.m. PST

Sails of Glory, you get everything in a box with 4 ships to fight small skirmish ship battles and you don't have to put them together or paint.

link

boy wundyr x23 Sep 2014 2:02 p.m. PST

Out of print, but perhaps still available in stores, is GMT's boardgame Serpent of the Seas –
link

I expect it can be converted to minis easily enough and is set at the scale of duels and North America type smaller ship actions.

Fire As She Bears may also work for what you're into; there are other rules for larger actions that have good reps but I don't know how they'll scale down.

Maybe A&A Games has something in their line-up.

David Manley23 Sep 2014 3:06 p.m. PST

"Maybe A&A Games has something in their line-up."

Form Line of Battle – use the section in the rules for small ship actions

Webcatcher23 Sep 2014 4:06 p.m. PST

Thanks for the responses. Does anyone have a good feel for how Close Action or Signal Close Action do with small engagements?

Sundance23 Sep 2014 4:09 p.m. PST

There's always AH's Wooden Ships & Iron Men. It's not terribly complicated. It does use hexes, but it's easy enough to translate rules from hexed to hexless without disrupting gameplay too much. Personally, I think it's perfect for small actions – I think it gets bogged down with large actions, just because there are too many ships to deal with.

vtsaogames23 Sep 2014 4:48 p.m. PST

Wooden ships has plotted simultaneous movement. It often caused collisions.

Blutarski23 Sep 2014 6:33 p.m. PST

Webcatcher – You might find the following battle report involving my "Steer to Glory" (STG) rules of interest. Simultaneous move, no hexes, no plotting except in special cases.


Lissa-1811 – Battle Report.

Had a couple of friends over this past Saturday to play the famous 1811 engagement between Hoste's British frigate squadron and Dubourdieu's Franco/Venetian invasion flotilla off the Adriatic island of Lissa.

Rules – Steer to Glory (unpublished, NOT Sail to Glory).
Scale – 1:2400 scale, both models, movement and range.
Table – 4' x 6', using eight 1.5ft x 2ft re-configurable sea tiles.

The scenario was kept more or less historical, with the action set along the north shore of Lissa. The port of San Giorgio, the principal port and harbor of the island, was situated about two sea miles (approx three sea tiles to the east of the play area at commencement of the game). Time of day was morning. Wind was a steady moderate breeze out of the N. The southern edge of the play area (running E-W) was considered to be the shoal water of the island. The tile intersection in the SW corner was specified as the center of a circular patch of submerged rocks 200 yards (3-inches) in diameter. The location of these rocks was known to the British player but not to the Franco/Venetian player.

The British squadron consisted of:
32 AMPHION (Flag)--900t / 13x18 2x6 5x24c = 246 + 120c / 18lbr frigate
32 CERBERUS--------800t / 13x18 3x6 3x24c = 252 + 72c / 18lbr frigate
38 ACTIVE---------1100t / 14x18 2x9 7x32c = 270 + 224c / 18lbr frigate
22 VOLAGE----------500t / 1x6 11x32c 4x18c = 6 + 424c / Sloop

All British ships except CERBERUS were considered to have veteran quality crews of high morale capable of hulling fire and a gunnery RoF of 1rd/2min. CERBERUS, historically about 30 pct short in her crew at the time of the action, was consequently given average crew quality and a gunnery RoF of 1rd/3min; otherwise she had similar crew and morale
characteristics.

--

The Franco-Venetian squadron consisted of:

French
40 FAVORITE (Flag)1100t / 14x18 6x8 2x36c = 324 + 78c / 18lbr frigate
40 FLORE----------1100t / 14x18 6x8 2x36c = 324 + 78c / 18lbr frigate
40 DANAE----------1100t / 14x18 6x8 2x36c = 324 + 78c / 18lbr frigate

French were all given poor crews (not the worst rating) of average morale, incapable of hulling fire, having a gunnery RoF of 1rd/4min.

--

Venetian
40 CORONA---------1100t / 14x18 6x8 2x36c = 324 + 78c / 18lbr frigate
32 BELLONA---------700t / 12x12 4x6 2x36c = 180 + 78c / 12lbr frigate
32 CAROLINA--------700t / 12x12 4x6 2x36c = 180 + 78c / 12lbr frigate

All Venetian crews were rated the same as the French, except for CAROLINA, which was given high morale as a tribute to her sterling resistance in the historical action.


The game began with the four British frigates in line-of-battle at half cable intervals (AMPHION (flag), VOLAGE, CERBERUS, ACTIVE), sailing W on the beam reach under battle sail. The northern shore of Lissa was about 600 yds (9-inches) to leeward.

The Franco-Venetian force, bearing NW from AMPHION, came down in two columns on a SE heading. The westernmost column consisted of the three French frigates (FAVORITE (flag), FLORE, DANAE). The eastern column of Venetian ships (CORONA, BELLONA, CAROLINA) was about 600 yds to the E of the French ships on a parallel course. All were at battle sail, making about 4 knots on the quarter reach. There was a some straggling (poor initial set-up dice) in both columns with average intervals of 250-300 yds between ships.

The Franco-Venetian battle plan, never really totally articulated or coordinated between the two allied players, was apparently for the French column to concentrate upon the head of the British line while the Venetian frigates engaged the British from windward on a reciprocal easterly heading.

Both columns came down on their SE heading. The French
column, aiming to strike the lead British ship, altered course to a more southerly intercept heading. The Venetians initially paralleled the French, but slowly turned onto a more easterly heading to clear their gun arcs and parallel the British line. Some desultory fire was exchanged during the approach, but no damage of any consequence was inflicted by either side.

As the French closed, the British line wore together, both to keep the French within their broadside arcs and to avoid the submerged rocks which they knew to be a few hundred yards ahead. There was not a lot of room to leeward, but the British ships came about safely. The French column was still barreling down at four knots when the French flagship ran right upon the submerged rocks, became stranded with heavy hull damage, and was put out of the game entirely.
The second in the French line, FLORE, cleared the rocks to the west while DANAE, third in line, avoided to the east.

Meanwhile the Venetian line, still to windward, continued slowly to the east, exchanging medium range fire with the rear of the British line.

In an effort to redeem the Allied fortunes, FLORE closed with AMPHION, engaged her at Musket Shot range (< 300 yds), then closed further to Pistol Shot range (< 100 yds), and finally ran AMPHION aboard from windward and grappled
her (both ships now heading E). Brave, but foolish, as the best chance for the French was to remain outside British carronade range, and take advantage of their heavier long gun broadsides to hopefully to inflict some crippling
mast damage upon the British before themselves suffering too heavily.

CERBERUS rushed to the assistance of AMPHION and engaged FLORE from windward, putting her between two fires. FLORE lost her mizzenmast, which fell to leeward upon AMPHION and fouled the two ships. This was a dangerous situation
for both ships, as they were at this point only about 200 yds from the Lissa shore. It can be said of FLORE that, if she did not fight successfully, she certainly fought bravely, being pretty much shot to pieces and enduring about 40 pct casualties before striking. In addition to the above-mentioned damage, FLORE also lost her main topgallant mast and had her main topsail yard shot away. She was pretty much crippled in movement as a result. AMPHION did not escape lightly. She lost her mizzen topmast and was left with a dangerously tottering mainmast. The French player had desperately tried to bring DANAE to the assistance of the hard-pressed FLORE, but problems with initiative dice prevented her from intervening in time.

Meanwhile, the Venetians had continued potting away at VOLAGE and ACTIVE from their windward position, slowly closing the range until the 18lbr frigate CORONA was
exchanging fire with ACTIVE at Musket Shot distance (<300 yds). Initially honors were about equal, but prospects for CORONA were not encouraging, as she was now within range of ACTIVE's carronades and unable to easily withdraw from the combat.

BELLONA, a modest little Venetian 12lbr frigate ended up closely engaged with VOLAGE, the British 32lbr carronade-armed ship/sloop. Expectations were that BELLONA was in considerable jeopardy, as she could not stand up to a broadside fire nearly double her own. But some lucky Venetian shooting toppled VOLAGE's mainmast, which crippled her movement. A deft maneuver by BELLONA then put her on VOLAGE's bow, where she was largely immune to VOLAGE's guns. With CAROLINA coming up in support of BELLONA, VOLAGE was in definite danger unless she received some support.

The game was not fought to a finality, as it was more of a test to examine more closely into frigate and small ship behavior within the rules mechanics and discussion and notation consumed a portion share of the available time. One of the interesting observations made was that 12lbr frigates, by virtue of their relatively weak long gun factor value, are not really effective in fire at ranges beyond 600 yards (Point Blank). Some other interesting events are worthy of note. The British quite unexpectedly suffered two gun bursts, which by themselves probably inflicted as much hull damage as French gunfire. Also, friendly fire from CERBERUS, whose line of fire into FLORE intersected AMPHION, was partly responsible for bringing down AMPHION's mizzen topmast.

End of report.

B

dantheman24 Sep 2014 2:23 p.m. PST

Webcatcher

Per your question.

Close Action is detailed Wooden Ships Iron men. Signal Close Action is different. A miniatures game from Langton. I see people use them more for fleet actions. Note there are two Signal Close Action rules. A fast play version and the regular version. The latter is quite detailed.

I have not tried Serpent of the Seas but you may want to look at that one further as it is designed for small actions. I have looked at the game and with the card systems seems fun. I have played Flying Colors which is the fleet version. It is the middle of the complexity range.

P.S. None of these are simultaneous except Close Action. The Langton rules are not hex based. The others are.

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