""TO DEFY A KING" - New 28mm ECW rules" Topic

Dear all,

"TO DEFY A KING" is a new set of ECW rules design by Keith Johnson ( link ). It seems to be already available from Redoubt Miniatures.

Any review or playtest on TMP ?

Pictures suggest it requires A LOT of miniatures.

Thanks and have a good day,

Benoit

Interesting development but, nope, I have no information on the rules. Nice pictures.

However, with Sir Thomas Fairfax and Prince Rupert as the generals on the front cover it is at least a big step in the right direction. After all, Fairfax was Parliament's Commander-in-Chief from 1645-1650, not Cromwell.

Looks pretty.

Does anyone know if the rules will be available as a PDF?

Who will volunteer to take the plunge and forkover 32 GBP sight unseen so the rest of us will have some information about the rules other than the author's name and pretty photos?

These rules were reviewed in the September issue of Wargames Illustrated.

The review was favorable, as wold be expected.
The review noted that they are very period specific and relatively straight forward to play. Not a lot of depth to the review but enough to convince me to eventually buy the rules.

Not a lot of depth to the review but enough to convince me to eventually buy the rules.

Well don't wait. You ought to buy them immediately. Then read them and come back here and summarize them in a meaningful fashion (i.e. you don't have to say how many pages the book is or that it has pretty photos; Do say what the units represent, what the turn sequence is, and how the firing and close in fighting mechanisms work).

Thanks in advance!

Dear all,

Thanks for your replies.

Indeed, it should be great to have a TMPer or the author doing a "true" review here.

Kind regards,

Benoit

£24.00 GBP as a pre-order from link
From the pictures, foot regiments are based four to a stand in two ranks, with six to eight stands to a regiment – bit like mine. Though it looks like pikes are deeper. Hmm.

Hi all

The rules will be available to be shipped from within the United States in a few weeks!

I won't be releasing them as a PDF set of rules.

Please let me know if you have any questions

I'm happy to do a review but it may be biased :)

The basic unit is the regiment and I base 4 figures to a stand with anything from 4 to 10 stands for a standard infantry regiment and anything from 2 stands upwards for cavalry (2 figures per stand)Pike are in 2 ranks muskets in 1

Thanks

Keith (Author)

I'm happy to do a review but it may be biased :)

How about a more detailed summary then?

Is there a ground scale?
How many men does each base represent?
Are bases removed when a unit suffers casualties or is a roster used?
What's the turn sequence?
How is fire and melee calculated?
Are there command and control rules?
What's a normal move distance for infantry?
How far do muskets shoot ?
Are any scenarios provided?
Is there a "points" system for creating pick up games?

IGOUGO?
Card Driven?

Hi all

Please find my responses below

I'll pen a more detailed summary in the next few days. The rules will be out by the end of next week

Is there a ground scale? – No

How many men does each base represent? – One figure represents approximately 30-35 men

Are bases removed when a unit suffers casualties or is a roster used? – Bases are removed once a unit suffers casualties.

What's the turn sequence? – Initiative, Command & Orders, Declarations, Movement, Firing, Melee, Recover

How is fire and melee calculated?
Firing – Each stand rolls 2D6 needing a base score of 8 to hit. This is amended using factors etc. Once you have added up the number of damage points scored you roll a D6 or under that number to see if a casualty has been made.

Melee – Same as above for casualties only you compare your damage points to that of your opponent. The one with the higher number is the winner of that round of combat. The loser rolls a discipline test and if failed is pushed back the difference in the damage points. Each Regiment has a pushback threshold and once this is exceeded the unit will start to suffer from disorder, retire, retreat and finally rout!!
We have had melees that have gone back and forth using this method. In fact we have very often had the winner of a round of combat take casualties while the opponent hasn't!!

Are there command and control rules? Yes, each Brigade has a leader who has a command rating and all units must stay within 12" of him (certain circumstances during the game can change this)

What's a normal move distance for infantry? 6" Normal 8" charge

How far do muskets shoot ? 6" short range 12" effective

Are any scenarios provided? One in the rules – Montgomery

Is there a "points" system for creating pick up games? – There are cards supplied with the rules that are used as a force generating system. Army lists are provided for all the main years and theatres of the war 1642-1645, Montrose and 1651. The cards are used to generate your force for any of these theatres and we use 10 units per side for an approximate 3-4 hour game.

Each turn sequence is simultaneous except for movement which is done on initiative. The winner decides to go first or second. Everything else is done together.

Included in the rules is a fast sheet along with the cards

Hope this helps

Thanks

Keith

Sounds fun!

just curious why musketeers are in 1 rank while pikes in 2?

Hi Timbo

I decided to simulate the looser formation of musketeers by giving one stand depth and pike with their denser formation 2 stands depth. I realise that in reality most units had 6 ranks of both pike and musket but decided to do the above to give the better impact for pike in melee than musket.

Also, it works in a game rather than having big side units or very thin ones

cheers

Keith

My infantry figures are based in two ranks, 4-to-a-stand. Will the rules allow me to call that a base instead of a 2-figure base?

It seems that this would basically double my unit depth without increasing unit frontage and the units will look larger but retain the same number of "bases". But I wonder if it will adversely affect something else in the game?

Hi

My infantry are based 40x40mm with 4 to a base!!

So The answer is absolutely not!! :)

Keith

The rules will be available to be shipped from within the United States in a few weeks!

Who will be selling them in the US ?

I will!!

I don't have a US distributor at the moment but they will be shipped from within the US as my brother is moving there and he is going to take some with him to ship direct

Thanks

Keith

When will this occur ?

Within the next few weeks!

His family are in the US and he is packing up the last of his house as we speak!!

cheers

Keith

Great.

He'll probably need time to unpack.
I hope to see an announcement in a couple months.

Where in the US is he moving to?

Hi Tin

He's moving to Florida to set up a business

Once he's there I'll post and of course the postage costs on my website will change for the better!!

I've not been in touch with any suppliers as yet but that may come

Recommend you contact Caliver (UK)/On Military Matters (US).
They have been very receptive to carrying new rule sets.

Hi guys some info for you:

[size=150]***UP UNTIL SATURDAY THERE IS A 20% PRE-RELEASE DISCOUNT ON ALL POSTAL ORDERS THROUGH THE WEB SITE**[/size]

Donnington/Derby World Championships

Hi All
Just to let you know that I'll be at Derby for all of Saturday and the rules will have their first show outing!!
Anyone wanting to buy the rules will be able to do so from the following stands:

Redoubt Enterprises
Dave Lanchester Books
Wargames Illustrated

If anyone wants to meet up and have a chat please let me know at one of the above stands.
cheers
Keith

Some info about the new rules from Wargames Despatch:
link

To Defy a King are tabletop War games rules for the English Civil War. The Rules are designed to give a flavour of the period whilst giving a quick and easy game. Games can be played with anything from a few units up to a full scale battle lasting all day. The rules have been designed with games lasting 3 to 4 hours using around 10 units per side.

There is a unique game set up using unit cards and army lists that use cards for each year of the war. The main unit within these rules is the regiment and each regiment is made up of a number of stands. Units can be as small as 2 stands going up to as large as 10 stands. All dice required in these rules are D6.

Included in the rulebook are the rules, army lists along with a battle report. You are also provided with a fast sheet and 10 A4 cards that provide the unit cards that make up all of the army lists.

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Few more pics:

Received my set today: I haven't had time to read them thoroughly yet, but the production values of the book, the QRS and the cards are very good, equal to those of far larger, long-established publishers.

I like the fact that TDAK is a purely set of wargame rules, without any potted history of the ECW or advice on painting figures, making terrain &c.

I decided I can't wait for them to be sold in the US so I ordered a copy yesterday.

I hope to be trying them out very soon.

Hi Tin

Posted today!!

Let me know if you have any questions

Cheers

Keith

I,ve ordered a copy from redoubt ent. My collection is in 15mm based 4figs on 30mm sq for infantry And 3 figs 30x40 for cavalry . Hopefully no rebasing? Cheers

Is there a QRS available for download either on your website or forum?

Hi Tin

No but there is one supplied with the rules!!

Bagpiper, so long as all of your figures are based the same for both side you should be fine. From what you've said you should have no problem

cheers

Keith

Contents

More questions:

1.Can someone explain in more detail the Orders part of the rules. Are these written down, are counters used to specify defined orders as set forth in the rules? How are they given and/or changed?

2. Does it matter how many pike or shot bases are in an infantry regiment or is the regiment as a whole just assigned a shooting and fighting value? If shooting or fighting is done by base type, how does this work?

Thanks.

Hi Bede
1. Orders are given at the start of the game to each Brigade. These are written down. Orders are changed by sending an aide from the general to the Brigade commander who then rolls on his Commander rating to see if the new order is changed. This was not a period of detailed orders with them being changed all the time. It is easily done but could take time

2. I've tried to keep ratios along with number of stands in a regiment eg a 2:1 ratio regiment can have 4 stands of musket and 2 stands of pike. Each stand fights but as you would expect musket stands are not as good as Pike stands in a melee. Only musket stands shoot. The combat mechanism is the best part of the rules

Each stand rolls 2D6 and the number of damage points inflicted is added up. The regiment with the most wins the combat and the loser takes a discipline test. A D6 is rolled by both sides and if the number of damage points or less is rolled a stand is removed as a casualty. If the discipline test is failed then the loser is pushed back in inches the difference in the damage points. If passed the combat is drawn and continues next turn. There are different factors that affect these but that is the basic run through.

cheers

Keith

Keith Johnson author of To Defy a King will be running a participation game at the WARFARE show Reading 15th & 16th Nov. Please look us up for a chat or a game.

Any update on when US purchases will be available?

'To defy a king' game report from last week

On Sunday I took a quick trip down to the Earlswood Club to play a game of 'To defy a King', with its author Keith Johnson and a couple of his mates.
The Earlswood club is one of the friendliest and easiest going clubs I've ever been to and was made to feel very welcome. It was with some relief I wasn't asked to share Keith's pot noodle as I know sometimes a refusal can offend.

I brought with me my 25 mm Montrose army loosely based on the army that fought against the Covenanter forces at Auldern in 1645.

Facing me was a Covenanter army of a similar size.

My first step was to choose the composition of my army. This was generated from a pack of shuffled cards. I was able to field 3 units of horse and 2 regiments of Irish musketeers, three regiments of Gordon/Minimore regular pike and shot troops and two units of highlanders. I was allowed some good upgrading options and decided to pack a powerful punch with my cavalry on the left, who were supported by the Irish musketeers and Highlanders, who I deployed badly in the second line. The Scots pike and shot units were deployed on the right and far right.

My co general Spike and I decided to refuse his infantry wing and draw on the bulk of the enemy foot over to our side of the table. I in the meantime would swap the opposing forces in front of me and swing around the rear of the enemy foot.

The rules were straight forward and easy to pick up, all dice throws are based on 2 d 6. After a game or two, it will be very easy to play the game from the crib sheet.

Missile fire is realistic and cavalry melees are very realistic in that they portray the sew saw nature of the fighting.. As some one who is chronically anal about the period, there was little here for me to pick holes in, and I am certainly looking forward to a return match.

The game set of with Spike slowly retreating in front of a bulk of hodden grey. Sorry must have been a very boring game for him. I, in the meantime threw my horse into the enemy cavalry and slogged it out for a far all while, a good regiment of musketeers stood in support of my hard pressed troopers. My highlanders were shot to pieces by veteran foot and soon seen off. Things were looking grim for the Irish foot, hard pressed by pike and unsupported by the raw Highlanders, with one clan ( the MacLeod's) fleeing the field.
Fortunately my horse saved the day, routing the dour covenanter horse, two relatively fresh units wheeled around and prepared to take two regiments of government infantry in the rear- seeing what was about to happen, they formed into hedgehogs- they were now sitting ducks.

On the far right the fighting petered out as Spike made some killer vollies that disordered his opponents foot. With defeat looming, the Covenanter Generals both called it a day. It was in reality a bloody draw. Bad deploying had seen the cream of the Irish mauled and most of the Highlanders fleeing the field. With his cavalry sorely hurt too, the future of the King's cause in Scotland was looking doubtful.

Enjoyable game, I look forward to the next

link

Hi all

Dont forget to pop over and say hello at Warfare in Reading this weekend!

We will be running a game as a participation as well showing explanations of the rules.

Cheers

Keith

*sigh* . . . Reading is rather a long way from Vancouver Island (off the west coast of Canada) so I don't think that I will make it, Keith, but have fun anyway.

-- Jeff

Thanks Jeff!!

I'm sure we will!

cheers
Keith

Hi all

Just thought I'd let you know that we won best demonstration game at Warfare in Reading!!

A great weekend was had by all! Thanks to those who turned up and came to see us

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cheers

Keith

I see that Steve-th-Wargamer also picked your display game as the best at Warfare:

link

Congratulations.

-- Jeff

Thanks for that Jeff

Good to see someone else liked our game

Not sure what we'll take next year though!

cheers

Keith

We played our first game with these rules today: General view was very favourable- the results felt realistic and caught the flavour of the period (All the players are ECW re-enactors of over 20 years' standing).

Only one quible- what does the plus 1 to unit attacking to rear mean?

I shall definitely be getting a set and switching to this for ECW games.

Hi Czartank

I'm glad you enjoyed the rules!!

Is it the bit in the melee section? It means a unit attacking another unit in the rear gets +1.

Must admit I read it again and it is a bit vague!! Sorry about that

cheers

Keith

Hello,

I was playing in the same game as CzarTank, and can only agree with his assessment, as we all had a good time fighting with Sir Wilbur Fairfax and Sir Richard Astley…

There was another query:-

The Melee rules state that one rank of musketeers etc can fight but two ranks of Pikemen. Should we read 'ranks' to mean 'Stands', as the melee process uses Stands as basis for all the fighting?

Thanks very much,

Alistair

PS – Ian (Czartank), I have found in the Rule Book that the +1 Gallopers Factor in Melee is for Round One only – shame I wasn't so alert yesterday afternoon…

Hi Alistair

Yes you are correct it is two stands for pike and one for musket that fight in melee

cheers

Keith

Thanks for the clarifications Keith

Hi All

Just a few pictures from our recent all day game of Edgehill!

Parliament won the day due in the main to the Royalist infantry failing to getting to grips with the enemy and standing off firing their muskets!!

Oh and one other thing Rupert failed to sweep the enemy horse from the field due to the bad timing of his attacks!! Oh and some really bad rolling :)

Cheers

Keith
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