"Captured Austrian Guns" Topic

Anyone know what a captured Austrian 6-pdr in French service in 1809 might have looked like?

Was the gun carriage changed?

Was the original carriage kept but repainted in French colour?

Thanks in advance!

I would think they just used them as is.

I agree with MajorB on this

I gifted some to my Bavarian cannoneers and a few to the French gunners. Some are the original yellow and some are gray.

I'm sure they would have used the same carriage. I often wonder whether they would have been repainted. Some of these captured pieces were in use for quite a few years.

If they were newly captured I don't see any changes being made as there was too much else to do on campaign. Putting and keeping them in serviceable order would be the most important thing.

Boulart has an interesting story to tell about the temporary use of a captured Austrian piece in 1809 after Essling while one of his French pieces was being repaired with a new vent.

I would think that any captured ordnance would be repainted in the French gun carriage color because that was undoubtedly at a distance how artillery companies/batteries would be identified in the smoke and mess of combat.

B

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression many of them were detailed to the infantry to be used as battalion guns. Most were lost in Russia. I have no idea if they were repainted, but considering the difference in years 1809 vs 1812, I would assume they'd been repainted.

I would think that in preparation of a new campaign that the guns may have been repainted in their new master's colours while they were being refurbished etc.

Bn Jackson,

These were Austrian 3-lbers (*not* 6-lbers) being used in 1812 with French army infantry : 2 pieces forming a "compagnie" (despite the number of pieces) attached to each regiment. A purist might want these to be called "la compagnie d'artillerie régimentaire" ….. and it was certainly less than 1 piece per battalion.

As far as I know, none of these made it back from Russia. Also, I have yet to find any mention of them, except ….
…. in various returns and monthly reports before the campaign
…. In one of Davout's orders early in the campaign he mentions sending both of the regiment's guns with one particular battalion of the regiment ordered to make a unique movement
…. Labaume can be read to imply that Eugène collected these light piece from his infantry regiments early in the campaign and moved them with the divisions' artillery.

And, so never once have I seen these pieces referred to as being actually used.

Nor do the Russian seem to count them in their intelligence or after-action reports or even in reports of their being captured. But, they had switched out their own 3-lbers for 6-lbers starting from about 1792, and had many old unused 3-lbers of their own already cluttering up their arsenals.

So, what exactly happened to the Austrian 3-lbers remains a bit opaque to me, and I have long wondered if the French conveniently ditched them some time in July.

Perhaps another colleague knows more on this topic?

- Sasha

P.S. The Russians did try out some of the captured An XI French artillery pieces, with a view to equipping some of their replacement artillery brigades later in the year 1812. However, they decided that they preferred their own pieces, and would not use any of the captures.

P.P.S. Captured French muskets were deemed suitable only for second-line troops, but were deemed better than Austrian ones (which were deemed essentially un-acceptable). For muskets, the Russians liked their own obr. 1808, purchased Brown Bess from Britain, and captured Swedish weapons.

I don't think they ditched them – they were still guns and of that expensive and of high prestige.

From Westphalian memoirs I know that at least those were in use.

I am surprised about the negative assertion of the Austrian muskets, they were incorporated in large numbers into the French Army, as well as in the Bavarian Army from 1805 onwards.

Was there a brake in quality – when the M 1807 came up??

Didn't second rate or unfashionable guns find their way into forts.

I have carried out research on the poundage of naval guns of this period for caparison of the weight of each nations broadsides, each nations pounds are different weights (the British being the lightest).

The Royal Navy always regunned rated captured ships.

I know that difference is only small, but will a French 6pdr ball go down an Austrian 6pdr gun ?
.

Davout 3rd Corp 12lb battery in 1806 were Austrian
pieces captured in 1805.

No a French 6-pdr ball does not fit down a Austrian 6-pdr.

French would unlikely to have repainted. Remember that Austrians guns were Yellow Ochre and the French Artillery Green was Yellow Ochre with a dash of black.
Stephen

von Winterfeldt,

If you can recall which Westphalian memoirists wrote of the regimental artillery in 1812, I would be very interested to read them.

The Russians dislike for the Austrian muskets may have been mistaken. Three regiments (all army heavy infantry) are known to have had them at the beginning of the campaign, in three different corps. Two of the the three made requests to change to captured French muskets (or really anything else). Now exactly which Austrian muskets these were I do not know. Possibly, they were not the M1807, but something earlier.

In any case, captured Austrian muskets (and quite a few were taken from the Bavarians later in the year) were warehoused thereafter.

But, I will repeat, the Russians showed a very marked preference in general for their own obr. 1808 muskets and the Brown Bess. They even went to the effort to buy used Brown Bess when they could not get enough new ones and have them refurbished in Russian arsenals.

Considering that the Russians (save the jäger) were not known for the prowess of their musketry, perhaps their choices were not the most wise, or were based on an "unexpected" difference. For example, stout construction that was more robust in melée fighting or in poor climate conditions may have weighed more heavily than other elements of the design.

The Russians did not always make the same choices as other nations for such reasons. An example often discussed is that they preferred metal shod axles to actual metal axles for their artillery. They tried both, and decided that the wooden axles were lighter, easier to repair under poor field conditions and generally more reliable in extreme cold. So they pointedly decided to "pass' on what was seen as a technical advance by the French. Similarly, they preferred the horizontal screw operating a wooden wedge for elevating their artillery pieces, as opposed to a more "advanced" vertical iron screw lifting mechanism.

- Sasha

Bit like T34s needing a mallet to change gear, or a pencil in space, as pens don't work. The Russians do seem good at getting it right however crude the solution might seem. It usually works for them!