"This guy..." Topic

I realize that gaming in general attracts all types, but I also have patience with that; I tend to call it a "big tent" approach. So long as people are of an agreeable temperament, can make the session on time, participate and have fun, we're all good.

Then I met this guy.

Said he was a vet of many RPG game groups, but had left every one because they did not play the right way or were all flakes and/or undependable. Has very strict sleeping, food and medication requirements for his mental issues – you see, he is disabled and on state assistance & housing because he got too, "stressed out," in his previous job as a phlebotomist. I guess taking blood pressure and drawing blood was so overwhelmingly traumatic he could not try any possible other profession afterwards (judgmental, I know…)

Since he has so much time on his hands (no family, no work, no other hobbies) he has every rule for Pathfinder memorized. Interrupts to chime in and, "correct," the DM strenuously to the point of almost bullying over something he feels is not, "by the rules," no matter how minor or innocuous the perceived, "violation," might be.

Additionally, has his "interpretation" of many rules, spell effects and details that abuse the intent (my opinion) and when shown there are other ways for the interpretation to go, claims those are not right – and will not let it go. Claims if the rules allow it, he should be able to do it with no penalty, such as his witch possessing on her person: Her wand, a sling, morningstar, dagger, longspear and crossbow and be able to change out every weapon without penalty.

A longspear is 8ft long – strapped to her back (with her backpack, and crossbow, and quiver of 20 bolts) it would be 9ft (sticking up 4ft over her head) because it needs to clear the ground. When trying to reason with him by drawing out a diagram of all these and where he has them and how ridiculous it looks and difficult it would be to switch from a sling to a longspear that is strapped to your back; their combined awkwardness trying to carry them all in general he maintained vehemently it was in the rules he can carry them and there is nothing about any penalties changing them on the fly, it is a Standard Action. He refused to grasp the logic in favor of letter of the rules to optimize his PC's options.

Has never heard of, "Don't let the rules get in the way of a good game or story."

I requested everyone let me know how their PC generation was going, what traits they choose, how their backstory was coming along. The player choose two diametrically opposing traits and could not see the logical conflict – all he saw was the benefits of the traits without seeing they conflicted. His response was, "You said I can pick two, those are the two I pick." I prompted him to try to work out a logical backstory reason that reconciles the two opposing traits. He refused at first, hemming and hawing, so I provided a reason for him just to move things along.

Despite being 38yrs old, has a LOT of trouble restraining vulgarity and sophomoric levels of sexual humor at the table (when the host has 4yr old, 6yr old & 14yr old girls running about the house during play.) Things like leering while declaring, "My PC is a bonded witch – she's bonded to her wand and yes, she uses the wand on herself every night." Or hinting his female PC will be raping one of the other PC's if they get knocked out, that would be payment for healing his PC back up. Despite this, the player himself professes to be Christian and told everyone he will not play if any other players are fielding evil PC's.

He has no books. He requires about 25% of the play table space, an outlet and internet access to use his laptop to play. Well, to look up rules that he already knows and make the case his interpretation is superior, even though I have all the books required in my possession ANYWAYS.

The game starts at 2nd level. He has plotted (actually written out) every Skill slot placement, Feats, and option choices for every time he levels up to 20th. ALSO has plotted all the magic items and weapons he hopes to obtain and at what level he is hoping for them.

AND is not shy about dropping those magic item names EVERY session hoping to hint the DM into making it available to buy or part of an expected horde to loot that session.

The player eschews actual ROLE play. When encouraged to step out of his comfort zone and expand his playing style and suite of tools to engage in a minor amount of NPC interaction, he outright refuses to do it, saying he is uncomfortable with role play and if he wanted to do something uncomfortable he would not be playing.

So one would think the player likes the hack and slash instead. Nope. He plays support PC's (druids, wizards, etc.) not fighters, but he supports HIMSELF. He casts all the protections on himself and lets others carry the combat load. Will not engage enemies voluntarily unless he has an (almost) guaranteed victory with little-to-no chance of getting wounded himself. If he does get surprised by an enemy and knocked about for a half dozen hit points (out of his 28hp) suddenly it is, "I withdraw, TPK right here, we're doomed, I have to heal up!"

As I type this out, I realize it is a wonder my patience lasted this long and he quit instead of being kicked out earlier.

And thus, this third session – he quit. I'm sure adding OUR group to the many he will claim in future conversations, "do not play right."

Yep, this guy…

I figured he'd quit somewhere in the middle of your first message…

Fortunately, he decided you were doing it wrong because it was time for "the talk."

Lucky for you he quit after only three sessions.

Eh, I would have DM'd the game to kill off his PC in some bizarre and spectacular way. Like having his PC catch some fatal and pernicious untreatable STD from another knocked-out PC s/he "took liberties" with ("Oh dear! You've caught something bad from Sir MoMo! No, he's not affected by it, as he's just a carrier. Oh, and (witch name) is also now pregnant, by… guess who! with the spawn of a 44th level demon. Let me roll a die to see how many rounds it will be before it bursts out like that critter from 'Alien'. Wait, why are the other PC's suddenly running away from you…?")

You and the other players could then just chalk the episode up as a "bad dream" the PC's experienced after eating steak'n 'shroom dinners at the Swig & Swill pixie bar…. ;-)

Jeez…did you find this guy on craigslist?
I feel bad for you- but better now that you are rid of him.

Sounds like he has some issues that go way beyond work related stress! I know a couple of people (not through gaming, fortunately!) who fit that description pretty well!

We had a similar guy in our group in high school and then another in a group I had later. Although neither was that bad.

The first one came in with D&D stats that he "rolled" Nothing below 16, typically two or three 18s.

His character killed himself in a Stormbringer game when he lost one of his hands as he wielded a great sword and put all of his bonuses into that.

The other guy was just not interested in role-playing at all and saw the game as, more or less, a bonus stacking exercise.

Does Pathfinder not have a caveat about the GM being authorized to override the written rules at their discretion?

He's gone….

Now I would say "Lesson learned"…start the group from the beginning again and play to have fun….

Reminds me of someone who is a member of a forum I frequent – not this one btw. Forever starting 'humorous thread's that aren't funny, then complains no one congratulates him on his humour. Started a thread complaining that everyone is too nice to each other, slagged off another members painting style (even though it was fine imo).
On the rare occasion he posts his own work he always starts with a caveat: don't criticise my work…and it's usually terribly painted.
To top it off…if anyone is mildly critical, he states how nasty that is because he is disabled (no I don't see the link either, and unless drinking too much – which he likes to boast about – is a disability…). He also claims he suffers from 'mental issues' --- that I definitely agree with :-)

The older you get the shorter the time you will put up with those guys. :)

Poor bastard. A social cripple, possible borderline autistic, possible borderline sociopath, exacerbated by gaming addiction due to lack of a meaningful life. If there were no gaming he'd be a substance abuser, or he could pick that habit up later, addictions are non-exclusive. He's probably doomed to complete melt-down and homelessness when his mother dies. It's good for you that he didn't attach like a barnacle. Too bad that productive people have to fund social welfare for this miserable useless wad of phlegm.

Judgemental? Yeah, a little.

First rule: Regardless of the rules, the GM decides what is correct.

Second rule: You can ask "why?", but "Because I said so" is a completely valid answer.

Third rule: If you still want to argue about the rules, see rule 1.

I like what Murphy said about this.
We had a D&D group start playing on Saturdays at the Games Store I frequent. They were rather a rude group. Many of them were rather fragrant. And the included in their number a few smokers. The last shouldn't be a real problem. I smoke. But I have no issue with going outside to enjoy a cigarette. Some of them did. And they didn't seem to be able to grasp that their behavior, in this regard, could put the store owner in trouble with the powers that be. There are state and local laws against smoking in stores and such around here.
Finally, they had a problem with other gamers speaking too loudly during their games. This is a store with a large open space with lots of games tables. So it can get quite loud in there. Besides, they felt they should be able to shout whenever it suited them.
Well, they're gone now. I'm not sure if they were booted out or left on their own. But I do know they're not missed…

Only played one RPG but I have always understood that the DM is the end all be all and that rules are really there just to help things along.

Dear Mardaddy

You're better off. Life is too short to put up with obnoxious players.

OBVIOUSLY this guy was a troll. Living, breathing, real-life example of what usually get's trucked out as the average gamer when the newspapers come to a convention.

Been in the hobby 52 years and learned long ago to just toss such people out. You feel bad about it, but… you as the GM/DM have a responsibility to the other players to manage not only the dungeon but the group. Playing with good games is a privilege not a right.

The GM's word is law. That's it.

My own method of DM'ing started with AD&D and evolved into a much more fluid system. Basically now when I run an adventure campaign, I said to the players "You can be whatever and whomever you wish and have whatever you wish, however the one thing I want from you is a one page single-spaced explanation of your teleology. That is "What makes you tick! What floats your boat, answers your need in this life." That usually turned up the t***ds right away.

How I handled the occasional person who wanted all sorts of fancy stuff was simple.

I had guys come up saying they wanted a ring of invulnerability. I gave it to them. The ring was invulnerable.

But don't feel bad I've had the same guy in miniatures games. This guy could tell you all about how his favorite unit could not only walk on water, but three inches above it so they didn't get their shoes wet.

The hobby's full of people who are full of it.

Otto

Yeah, there is a reason you are called the Game MASTER. You should have slammed this mook hard when he decided it was to only be HIS way. I'm glad he is gone from your group! Life's too short.

I am a loooong time AD&D 2ndEd DM (since 1983), and when DMing, the rules are:

1. DM is always right.
2. If DM is ever wrong, see Rule 1.

BUT, with Pathfinder, I had played only a half dozen times and this is the first campaign I have DMed in that system, so was willing to be more flexible allowing those who may know the rules better have some input.

But, three sessions in, I was seeing abuses by him and started making, "this is the way it is going to be," judgments regarding rules/spell effect translations, and that was the straw that broke his camels back – because I seemed to no longer be willing to go with his way of seeing or interpreting things, he quit.

Despite all that, hope he finds what he is looking for elsewhere, I don't wish ill on anyone.

Did he really quit or is he covered in lime under your floorboards????????

Dear Mardaddy

Speaking generally though I often don't think the GM does the right thing or handles an interpretation right, but then-- neither does God in this real world. Part of the "adventure" in adventure gaming is not being certain of everything.

Otto

Game Master is always right. Next time you can be GM and we will play the way you want to, bring your own terrain, rules, painted figures, etc. GM is free to modify the rules, change the rules, ignore the rules. The pirates code is more of a guide line really.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

So long as people are of an agreeable temperament…

Both of your OPs show clearly the fellow is defective in this essential, so nothing else that he does right matters. Gamers must be agreeable. Disagreement is not part of the game, any game. Differing opinions can and ought to be talked over outside of the gaming session. As already observed above, the "GM" is "God" of his own universe, and the rules book is "more like guidelines, really". It helps if the GM is the author of the rules in use. That is perhaps a rare luxury – one which I happened to enjoy for nearly two decades of GMing my own adventures in my own house. That last, of course, is also a bonus in any potential power struggles: Your House, Your Rules….

Never understood that kind of players. In a role game, the rules are at the service of the story, not the other way around.

The funny thing is, compared to all the other "issues" he brought to the game sessions, the rules-lawyering could be mitigated the easiest and I was knowing the rules well enough and getting more backbone and making, "my way or the highway," rules interpretations, so I saw it as the least of the "issues."

But as mentioned, it apparently was the thing HE could not take any more – as it was after I made a few rules judgments and changes to prevent abuse, he quit.

I know there are two sides to every story and he has his own view and perception of why the group became intolerable…

How did he last long enough to play 2 games?

John, scarcity of players willing to play during the timing of our sessions (every other Saturday 2-6PM), we NEED players.

One of our players is a Martial Arts Instructor with volunteer obligations, four girls ages 4-16 and a busy family life taking care of them. He has the most restrictive windows of availability because he has a rich, full life. He is a pleasure as a player, and DM's our "Dark Sun-ala-Pathfinder" games.

There are quite a lot of local PF players out there, but it is a matter of their availability and willingness to make the session during the time we are restricted to play due to accommodating that schedule.

For most interested players, Saturday is a non-starter to begin with because they want their weekend, or every other week is not enough.