"Composition of French 2nd Bttn 'Fanion Guard'?" Topic

Hi Gents,

I hope this finds everyone well.

After a little hiatus I've been prodding myself back into some Napoleonic sculpting, still chasing my OCD tail, and wondering if anyone would know, offhand, the composition of a French 2nd Bttn 'Fanion Guard' (for lack of a better term)?

I've got nice documentation stating the make-up of the actual Color Guard; Eagle Bearer, flanked by 2 'Porte Aigles', and backed by 2 ranks of 3 corporals, but would it be similar for the fanion bearer for the 2nd, 3rd, etc.. Bttns.

Thank you for any help,
Bob

By regulation the fanions had no status and therefore no guard would be provided. However, the French Army being what it was, a couple of 'stout lads' would probably be allocated to give some support.

Thank you, Artilleryman. May I ask if they would be found within the ranks, as any of the rank n filers, or a separate entity as the color guard is?

Thank you again,
Bob

The fanion purpose and regulations were regularly ignored by regimental and battalion commanders. Instead of merely being a marker flag with colors assigned to each battalion of the infantry regiments that carried them (except for the 1st battalions, as they carried the regimental eagle), the fanions were decorated with eagles, flaming grenades, hunting horns, etc., then making them somewhat valuable as combat trophies.

That being the case I have no doubt that regimental and battalion commanders would have a color guard assigned.

B

Wouldn't there be a color party just to keep the standard, expected spacings between the pelotons, for maneuvering?

I don't know about the French and their fanions, but the Russians had color parties even for battalions that did not have any flag or fanion at all : Jäger battalions, combined grenadier battalions, 4th reserve battalions, the "duplicated" 2nd replacement battalions, the battalions of the (temporary) reserve infantry regiments, etc.

I think part of the issue was that normally the French fourriers or Russian quartermaster corporals were not around to drill with their pelotons/platoons. Their function was to arrange billeting and delivery of supplies. So, when forming for a battle, instead of changing out with some other NCO to whom the men were accustomed, they were grouped as part of a color party.

By the way, fourriers or quartermaster corporals were not so much "rear area" types as today – they often had to go ahead of the battalion into not-so-freindly country.

- Sasha

Of course the fanion would have a guard, just as Alexandre pointed out, you needed it for manoeuvring.

I think by regulation, the battalion flags ('enseignes' rather than fanions was the official term IIRC) were allocated two fourriers to guard them despite their official lack of status.

Thank you all for your help.

Seneffe, thank you I should have used the proper term; battalion flags rather than fanions, and 'enseignes' at that! So aside from the eagle and escorts of the 1st battalion, there would indeed be a 'guard' of 2 fourriers for the enseignes of the 2nd, 3rd, etc battalions?

I feel I may be confusing something here.. I apologize for my ignorance. But was there a separate 'enseignes/battalion flag' for the 1st battalion in addition to the eagle, or was there simply the eagle itself? I had always assumed that (after Napoleon decreed only the 1st Bttn would carry an eagle) the other Bttns in a regiment employed a simple (or sometimes extravagant) flag (I am assuming this is the enseignes?) to serve roughly the same function, as a marker, rallying point, etc..?

If this is the case, then it was guarded by 2 fourriers in the first rank, and not the larger 8-man grouping in 3 ranks as discussed in my OP?

Thank you,
Bob

Technically the French spoke of fanions, despite there existed two sorts of them, the small ones attached to a stick and carried with the musket for the wing markers or jalonneurs, and the fanions, bigger, which replaced the eagle when they were stripped off from the battalions.
Up to 1808 the eagles were carried by a sergent – major, later then by an officer – the battalion fanions were carried by a sergent – major as well.
The eagle / fanion guard should consist of the caporal – fourriers, but as already pointed out – when they were absent, usually sergents or Caporaux did take their place, they would carry the musket (when shouldered arms) as for NCOs – remeber l'arm au bras, all carried the musket alike – even NCOs.

It would be one NCO at each side of the eagle / fannion forming three files, the two other ranks behind them were also NCOs.

This is at least my understanding.

Thank you again, Von W.

If I may prod into your comment re; positions of arms: generally, while maneuvering on the field of battle, in regard to the scope of our wargame tabletops, would shoulder arms, or l'arm au bras be more proper?

Sincerely,
Bob

Segeants-Major and fourriers were the color guard prior to 1808. After the 1808 reorganization, they were replaced by a an outstandingly brave junior officer as eagle bearer who was picked by Napoleon himself and only Napoleon could relieve him from the posting.

The second and third porte aigles were veterans, picked for their bravery and promoted to sergeant.

Their choosing undoubtedly had a lot to do with their ability to protect the eagle in a melee, which was a deadly free for all where they would be obvious targets.

Battalion sergeants-major and the company fourriers were no longer used as color guards after the 1808 organization for a few reasons, not the least of which is they were not easily replaced in their actual jobs in their units.

B

both, shoulder arms has the advantage to get into other positions quicker, like get ready or any other move with the musket, form a'arme au bras you have to first go the shoulder army and then go on from that, so the closer you are to the enemy, the more likley you will have shoulder arms