"My FLGS is closing up shop..." Topic

Right when I was getting into the swing of their Thursday night gaming (which conveniently coincided in time and location with the wife's night classes; I could drop her off, game for a few hours, pick her up, terrific!).
But the rent had soared (steadily rising Nashville property taxes being the main cause), and the owner had health problems, and the combination was just too much. So, there goes a local institution and a popular gaming scene hang out.

Last night the group gathered there was trying to figure out alternative locations. For many, it had been "on the way home" from their in-city work to the outlying towns and suburbs. Of the handful of local stores with gaming space (a very small handful), it was probably the most centrally located, and really the only option on the south and west sides of Nashville. The others were in outlying suburbs either well to the north or well to the east— certainly out of my casual driving range, and well so for the folks near the I-65 corridor. As one patron observed last night, you need a place you can just "walk in and start playing" for the gaming scene to really survive. Somebody's basement really doesn't cut it. Plus, there's nothing like seeing the boxes on the shelf to get you to try something you might otherwise not know about.
I'm bummed. I had my fall and winter gaming plan set… no more.

Alas, I'm not a huge consumer of gaming product. I tried to buy from the place when I could, and picked up a WoG Bristol fighter last night. But I thought the store seemed to do alright; mostly special orders with an emphasis on GW, WGF, Warlord, Spartan and the like, as well as X-Wing (when he could get it) and ST:AW. But the sales couldn't beat the rent (read: taxes), so that's that.

I'm sorry for your community's loss. Maybe you should move down here to South Carolina. We have something for politicians who just can't help themselves when it comes to raising taxes. We call that an election…

Same thing happened to the War Room here in Ga. I hope something of the same caliber or better pops up for you.

Alas, I'm not a huge consumer of gaming product.

Yet, this is why shops close. The reality of the internet age.

"Alas, I'm not a huge consumer of gaming product."

For more to blame than rising rents (which are just a fact of life when running a business, BTW), is stagnant or dropping sales.
And you wonder why they closed…

Oh, and that gaming space everyone wants SOOOO badly? Well, it has to pay for itself somehow. When I had my store, we experimented with a gaming area. It NEVER paid for itself, so it had to go. If you want it, you've got to pay for it…

You have to buy from the STORE, not just come in to play.

He can't survive just on selling 40K to teenage boys being spoiled in custody disputes between rich parents.

Yep. I have gaming space in my "shop" but that's because I don't in my home any more. Fully 60% of my space is really the man cave and not the shop at all. Now I'm in a cheap spot off the main drag and mail order is my life blood – I don't even keep regular store hours.

But here's the math for my neck of the woods. Net cost per square foot around here for "real" retail is probably about $4 USD including utilities etc. So if you have 1000 square feet you are out of pocket $4,000. USD At an average margin of 40% that means you need to sell $10,000 USD per month just to pay the rent. That does not include paying for merchandise, staff, yourself, marketing, etc. Add 500 square feet for two gaming tables and those better add $5,000 USD a month in sales or you are dead.

Great points EC. And that is why historical gamers can't bitch about their local game store selling clicks, card games, collectable whatevers, and all of that other stuff that keeps the lights on so they can have a place to push around historical miniatures. You simply can't generate those kind of numbers with walk-in historical figure sales. Sorry to go off on a tangent, but I have seen that attitude…

Yep I get it all the time in reverse. "I love that you don't sell cards and clickies and crap…" says the guy who leaves with two jars of paint and a general for his Romans: $11. USD

Meanwhile I guy here has bought a building and is renting storage and gaming space. Still WIP and I'm not sure how it all works, but the idea is if you need space but not stuff, just pay for the space. Great idea if anyone will actually pay…

Theres a guy in my area with a store. Most of his "store" is gaming space. He has minimal stock on hand and does mostly special order stuff. He went out and bought a chest freezer. Periodically he goes to Costco and buys ice cream bars and frozen burritos and whatnot. I forgot what he charged but he said he was able to pay for a good chunk of his rent on just those food sales.

Really the end of an era.

There has been a historical game shop in Nashville since at least 1988. You could count 1985 as Barry (I forget his last name… he has no doubt passed away, someone help me out here) had Nashville Magic & Fun… as an adjunct to Chattanooga Magic & Fun. This store only lasted a few years.

Right about that time Gavin open Games Extrodinaire. They advertised in S&T magazine- in game terms, a big time operation!. They eventually blew up… to be replaced by a Fantasy, Scifi store… The Game Keep. A great store that doesn't do much historical… but is worth visiting and still open to this day. Lord Al's hobby shop took up the mantel in the interim. Finally, Wargames burned brightly for a few years only to fade.

I still remember my trip to Nashville for a conference in 1988. Rummaging through the phone book I found Games Ex. (I had missed Nashville Magic & Fun the previous year though I was a regular visitor of the Chattanooga store… living there… I think the Nashville store closed that year… my memory is hazy.) I found them off Lebanon Pike (not their later location on Lebanon Pike) and met Phil Merril. I thought I had found gaming Nirvana.

I missed the first Nashcon (1989?)… And in 1990 had moved to Nashville for my job. The rest is history.

The central point of this narrative is that a game store has been the focus of my gaming for 25 years. When a historical store was strong… the club scene was strong. When the store was weak… the club scene was weak.

I lament the final death of the last historical store in Nashville.

What will become of us?

Joe Collins

One thing is to pay something for use of gaming space. Our FLGs has a voluntary jar and I try to drop a five or ten most times I game.

Alas, I'm not a huge consumer of gaming product.

Yet, this is why shops close. The reality of the internet age.

I am not a huge consumer from anyone due to current budget constraints— one in college, one in law school, among others. Thus the "Alas" above. But, as I stated, I had made several purchases at the store throughout the year; I considered it my responsibility as a patron to support the operation as much as I could. I'm also confident that the regulars there did the same, far more than me. (Heck, I know for a fact that several made regular orders in the hundreds of $. USD) Point thy fingers somewhere else, please, or at least don't speak out of ignorance. You do not know the store, nor the city, nor the situation. But that's par for the course for TMPers, isn't it? *snark*

As for the rent it almost doubled, adding a yearly cost of around $5,000 USD to business operations (my estimate, based on conversations). That's a lot of increased sales to absorb, especially in this hobby. Yes, businesses should plan for rising rents at reasonable amounts. Indeed, he was prepared to absorb a reasonable increase. But almost 100%? Really? Y'all think that's a reasonable expectation? Baloney. But, as I also stated, the rent wasn't the only reason for the closing— poor health was part of the mix as well. (Do some of y'all even read posts before spouting off?)

Actually, the owner does run an Internet store, which he may be retaining, operating from his house. (I haven't asked on that front.) But it would keep income coming at much lower overhead, and fit his health situation, too.

So, in any case, it wasn't the Internet that did the deed.

He can't survive just on selling 40K to teenage boys being spoiled in custody disputes between rich parents.

And one wonders why kids don't want to be involved in gaming, John. Generalize much? :-P

I just wrote "Rummaging through the phone book".

I remember throughout the 80s going to conferences and training in other cities and constantly scanning the yellow pages for game stores. I visited the Yankee Peddler in Knoxville, the Game stores in Atlanta… in Perimeter Mall, in the downtown mall "Lennox?", and the original game store on Buford highway? I went to Chicago and visited the Emporer's Headquarters.

I remember the original "Royal Tiger" Hobby Shop in Chattanooga (shout out to Tim Lee, a wonderful guy) and visits there from Lord Al Gaiser and Maj. Bill Harting! ( and of course the unannounced arrival of one Howard Whitehouse, who lived and gamed there for a number of years).

With the rise of the internet and the death of local game stores… have we really progressed?

Sorry to be so morose.

Joe Collins

Parzival,

You are certainly welcome to join the most wrongly named Track & Hull club, Tuesday nights at the Keep. We are running several dungeon crawls (mine based on Castles & Crusades and Ed Dillon's based on Melee/Wizard). We are also doing WW1 and some Volley & Bayonet. DBA3 is of course a given as I am a play tester… and Wings of Glory/Sails of Glory as well.

Joe Collins

Whenever I read things like this, I shudder. I've been in the hobby long enough to fret endlessly about its future. I don't think minis gaming can survive in a significant way without a healthy retail presence. The internet and conventions can't be the glue, we need unity and centralization and community involvement that only FLGSs can provide. I am glad that they sell anything that helps keep them in business, I don't care if it's trendy fantasy schlock or plastic flower arrangements: whatever it takes.

I've seen so many local shops start up, give it a try, and fold within a year or two. I consider myself lucky that Austin has a great central establishment now -- Great Hall Games, check out their webstore -- where gamers can gather to play, shop, kibbitz, and make connections. Everyone with a FLGS in their area, please, please patronize it whenever possible. Hold your games there, encourage new blood, be welcoming to newcomers, and BUY stuff!! Help them to survive! Many only get by as labors of love on the part of dedicated owners and staff. They are US! Thank them and help them!

There is a possible way around this.

See if any of the regulars has a large garden and club together and self-build a gaming hut or shed (say around 8-10' x 16-20'). Buying the wood & building it yourself is usually a lot cheaper then buying a kit & can use seconds/recovered wood to save more money.

Can see problems occurring if there is a dispute within the land owner (or their other half) and gamers. In turn the city council/planning authority might say you can't have that or use it for that.

Only a suggestion/thought for the day.

Regards

MMG>

piper

Wargaming in the UK has not only survived but grown without the need for much in the way of game shops where you can play. They exist still and have always existed but their numbers are small and their existence (apart from GW) often transient.

We have clubs who rent rooms above a pub, a local Scout hut or even a permanent home – some even buy their own location and convert it. You just need to get some organisation going.

If you want somewhere to play regularly then you need to pay for it, if you want it near a city centre then you will have to pay a lot. Surely that is obvious. Just contributing by buying from the shop – who is likely to be unable to stock all that gamers need or will have to get stuff on special order at a low margin – simply isn't a workable long-term model for success.

@Piper909

I have to disagree with you about the need for a retail presence. I started in the hobby in 2002 or 2003. I have never lived close to a retail shop. In Chicago there is Games Plus. For historicals they have Flames of War and lots of odds and ends left over from who knows when. 25mm Vietnam? Sure, we have command packs, mortars and VC suicide bombers. But no grunts for either side. Microarmor? Ditto – recovery vehicles and trucks but no Shermans, no PzIvs. A great store for GW and role playing, however.

Or Charlie Prosek's model shop. Located way, way out in the burbs, round the back of a nursery in an empty greenhouse. Really a model and boardgame shop but with minis with an inch of dust everywhere.

We do (or did) have a GW bunker…

Cincinnati? One Flames of War shop. Two clickie/Yu-gi-oh/boardgame shops.

It was not a store that got me into painting miniatures, nor was it a store that got me into a regular gaming group.

BTW Cincinnati has CincyCon which is open to all sorts of gamers (cards, miniatures, boardgames) and attracts a crowd of 400+ after just a few years. A great show it is too.

I think the hobby will be just fine. It will just attract new gamers in a different way. And it means clubs will have to meet in private homes or libraries or other spaces. A friend of mine used to run games at his corporate office in the big conference room.

These guys have been around for years. Maybe an idea.

metroseattlegamers.com

The Trumpeter Gamers have a room in a local community centre in Burnaby, which is a suburb of the Greater Vancouver Canada area.
Maybe look into that.

Imperial Hobbies in Richmond B.C. has been around since the 1980's and is a large hobby shop which carries a variety of games, models, figures, terrain, paint, comics, books and cards.
It's done a good job of sticking around when others including Games Workshop stores closed.

Several FLGS around here opened and closed after a year based on the business model of putting everything on their girlfriend's credit card and then staying in the back playing computer games while customers fumed at the counter waiting for someone to take their money.

^^^ That's better than them ignoring you while they are sitting behind the counter painting their 40K miniatures and you are standing in front of them at the cash register, but gamers and their friends running stores is a whole 'nother thread.

^^^ Here too. The latest was Black Orc I think. They bought $25,000 USD worth of stock on credit cards. I met them at a con. We talked shop and when I learned that I thought "Best wishes, but you won't make it a year." Actually I think they made it for two….

Yeah that is the problem if you can not afford to buy a building with apartments you can rent upstairs you are done.

I can either afford a store full of stock or I can afford to rent the building, I cannot afford to do both at the same time.

I don't understand why playing in someone's home is not the answer. I have a 7' x 15' table in my home and run games normally every other Saturday.

If I had to haul all of my stuff to a store to put on the game, I would not do that very often. I do generally run games at six conventions per year. It usually takes me about two hours to pull out, pack up, and load what I take. Of course, my games are fairly scenery heavy.

I usually have a total of about six players. I probably have a dozen or so on my email list who are active. So can come come when others cannot.

I can put on six different periods. From time to time, someone else will volunteer to haul a different game over for some more variety.

This works for me much better than going to a store.

Tom

Sorry to hear that, but a sign of the times.

My FFAGS (Friendly Far-Away Game Shop – actually a mega-hobby store) closed about a decade ago, and some of the other, smaller ones have gone under recently as well.

Only the mega-store carried any decent inventory of minis and books, paints, models, etc.

Most of the others were a hybrid of FOW/Card-Game shops.

There is a huge amount of vacant retail stores in the area. Whole strip malls are pretty empty here.

Seems like perhaps the owner should check around for another location with distressed commercial real estate owners, though closing up shop is probably a better decision, economically, and for maximizing better use of available free time.

I hear Canada's tax rates are attractive, and that Warren Buffett/Burger King are planning to move there.

Of course, that option really stretches the term "local" a bit far.

Thankfully, the internet is still available, as is mail-order delviery.

"As one patron observed last night, you need a place you can just "walk in and start playing" for the gaming scene to really survive. Somebody's basement really doesn't cut it".

Form a gaming club, and see if you can get free space at a local library, or community center, on the weekend, or evenings.

That's what we do now, and it works well.

We rotate to different venues from time-to-time, as space is available.

Why doesn't someones basement work? I prefer going over to a friends house or having the game at my own house, much more comfortable in my opinion. I realize that not everyone has the space for a gaming table but I am sure a few people in the area do.

So I could rant for hours about how Historical gamers can't be catered to in a retail environment due to half a dozen reasons. I'll refrain.

However, I will say this. I am currently looking out at a shop that is 2400 square feet. With 300 – 500 taken up by retail space.

I have been in a dozen game stores all up and down the east coast. I'm close friends with a hobby store owner and I run a business in this industry.

A traditional game store doesn't work with as much game space as we have. However, I'm rocking 50-60% of income from direct snack sales. We are the only place in town open till 11pm. We average 20-40 gamers per night. We also concentrate on doing demos and events. Our goal is to convert new gamers and build stable strong communities for our existing ones. Each game we focus on has a pickup night as well as 2 tournaments a month. We do a TON of special orders. Seriously my restocks are crazy. 70%+ is pure special order. We have a well lit comfy space that is inviting and clean. Our female gamer numbers are higher then I've ever seen and I'm trying to get it higher. We can have 20-30% of women in the store on a given night. We run nerd/geek culture events regularly. Local costume guild meets here and now the Star Trek group is going to meet here. They need meeting space and we can provide it. We create 2-3 new gamers per week and I'm really working on new programs to get that number much higher.

Granted we are in the first 4 months of being open and things have been changing on the fly but a little more growth and advertising will push us up to were we can have a few employees and a bit more cash to experiment on new games.

I wrote the plan based on writing off all my regular gamers. They are not even in the plan for an income stream outside doing what they love to do. We are active about getting people into groups to play games. We push the fun stuff and organize events so people can game. If they buy from us then great. If not then so what? I'm all about creating new gamers and introducing old gamers into new stuff. Does it work for everyone? No. However, I took the current market into account and tried to create a system that works within it. I'm still perfecting it and adding new ideas/plans all the time. However, CorSec is my main focus with the store being primarily someone else's baby. It would have been an easier startup with more foot traffic but we are working on it.

So I could rant for hours about how Historical gamers can't be catered to in a retail environment due to half a dozen reasons. I'll refrain.

I'd be interested in hearing it. Rant away!

Please

However, I'm rocking 50-60% of income from direct snack sales.

Our own store doesn't do nearly that much of profit, but damn important for us.

For most of the owners, the gaming space IS the reason for having the shop, but patron loyalty is important, as well.

Of course, that also requires a personality behind the register who can engage people and sell.

Our 'manager' requires complete administrative support, but he can talk your ear off. Drives me nuts, but most who come in seem to love it.

I probably know what you mean by 'historical gamers', but have to say Flames of War often runs near 30% of our nut, and SAGA is growing by leaps and bounds.

I'm guessing the folks you mean who would disdain either. ;->=

with more foot traffic but we are working on it.

Now THIS is what I want to hear about, but not in this discussion.

Doug