"German WW2 SP Flak Batteries - 3 or 4 vehicles?" Topic

I'm a little confused trying to figure out how many vehicles I need for specific types of flak units.

The 88 on Famo Sdkfz 9 operated in units of three. The Wirbelwind, Mobelwind and Ostwind operated in units of four.

The Luftwaffe was in charge of certain flak units, but the Werhmacht had its own as well.

So, how many Sdkfz 251/21s with the "drilling" mount made up a battery? Or, the Sdkfz 7s with the 3.7 or 2.0cm mounts?

Thanks in advance.

Wyatt

It would help to narrow down particularly what types of units you're looking at, and a timeframe.

The 2-cm armed units serving in support of PzGren Regts or Inf Divs proper generally had the familiar four guns per Pl, three Pls per Coy set-up. Pz Regts could as well, though when they had 3.7-cm guns they had eight weapons rather than twelve.

Army Flak Bns proper were mostly found with Pz or Pz Gren Divs, and had a wider mix of weapons and structures.

Gary

Thanks Gary -

I'm mostly working late war, and trying to have enough vehicles on hand to do Western and Eastern fronts (one at a time, obviously).

My primary units are company-sized units based around Armored Panzer Grenadiers or Panzers. Heere units rather than Waffen SS.

Cheers!

Wyatt

For SdKfz 251/21 try 6 in a platoon.
link
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For 88mm
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Ostwind
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Then you're looking at the Light AA Coys with 2-cm or 3.7-cm weapons

The Pz Regt Flak Pl was based on either twelve SP 2-cm guns or eight SP 3.7-cm weapons. The 2-cm version was supposed to have the Pz38 chassis and was split into three Groups, each of four guns, split again into half-Groups of two each. The 3.7-cm version (linked above) had four Groups, each with a pair of PzIV chassis vehicles. There was the proposed end war SP Flak Pl, which could have four each 3.7-cm and 2-cm quad (both on the PzIV), or eight of each type of weapon.

The PzGren Regts were supposed to have a Light AA Coy of twelve 2-cm guns, mounted on SdKfz10 (1-ton) halftracks. These Coys were broken up with the change to the Panzer orgs say mid-44 and each Mot PzGren Bn should have picked up six 2-cm guns in its Heavy Coy.

The drilling mounts I've only seen allocated officially for either the Panzer Brigades (as from the above links) or late war non-Div Flak units, which are out of my area of interest. The 8.8-cm weapons were part of the Pz Div Flak Bn, and not normally dished out to support Regts as I understand it.

Gary

The flak units within a division were Heer (Army) units. (Except, of course, for LW divisions.) Those outside of divisions were usually Luftwaffe units.

Hi Wyatt,

The 8.8cm Flak on Sdkfz 9 was incredibly rare (only 15 built) and was probably gone by the latter half of the war. All 8.8cm Flak that I've found for 1944-45 was towed.

8.8cm Flak Batteries typically had four weapons (some had six), plus a couple of 2cm Flak for point defence against jabos.

Most late-war Flak battalions had two or three 8.8cm batteries and a single battery of lighter SP guns – typically a mixture of Sdkfz 7/1 (3.7cm) and Sdkfz 10/4 (2cm). alternatively, these might be towed 3.7cm guns.

As mentioned, all divisional Flak battalions (except for FJ Divs, Pz Div Hermann Goering & LW Field Divs) were Army or SS. However, note that all Luftwaffe Field Divisions were transferred to the Army in November 1943 (though uniforms took a while to change over – a mixture was photographed in Normandy).

Corps and Army-level Flak battalions were relatively scarce, though they did exist and were managed by the Army. Most rear-area Flak defence was managed by the Luftwaffe Flak-Korps, though these frequently found themselves shoved into the front line, such as III. Flak-Korps in Normandy.

The Flakpanzers (FlakPz 38(t), Moebelwagen, Wirbelwind and Ostwind) were operated exclusively by the Panzer Regiments and were organised as described by Gary above.

Panzer Battalions, including independent Tiger battalions, also tended to operate a single platoon of three Sdkfz 7/2 (Quad 2cm).

Sdkfz 251/17 with 2cm Flak tended to be used as panzergrenadier platoon commanders' vehicles very late in the war, filling the role once occupied by Sdkfz 251/10. However, the Luftwaffe version of the 251/17 (with drop-down sides) I believed was employed by Flak battalions.

As Gary says, Sdkfz 251/21 was generally only used by the independent Panzer Brigades.

Grenadier Regiments could sometimes have a regimental Flak Company consisting of towed and/or SP 2cm and/or 3.7cm guns, though they were frequently massed into divisional flak battalions or into one of the companies of the divisional panzerjaeger battalion.

Panzergrenadier flak elements are described by Gary above.

The general rule of course, is that there was a bewildering array or organisations and equipment and there were plenty of exceptions to the rules. For example, after Normandy, the three surviving Moebelwagen flakpanzers belonging to SS-Panzer-Regiment 9 were taken away and given to SS-Flak-Battalion 9 (with whom they fought at Arnhem).

Remember when painting that Flak waffenfarbe would only be worn if they belonged to a dedicated flak battalion. Flak units belonging to Grenadiers, Panzers, Panzergrenadiers, etc, would wear the waffenfarbe of that branch, not the flak branch.