"Sources for Swiss Confederation military" Topic

Dear fellows, do any of you knows any good source (in any language) about the development of the military organization of the swiss cantons during the 15th/16th/17th centuries?

Sorry, I am blank here. A small search found the following:

Schaufelberger, Walter
Blätter aus der Schweizer Militärgeschichte Nr. 15

The author published a couple of interesting articles (though I have not yet read any), like "Marignano. Strukturelle Grenzen eidgenössischer Militärmacht zwischen Mittelalter und Neuzeit".

At zvab.com you get used exemplars from 15 EUR on. I just ordered one – if you wait a week I can give you more details.
If anybody else here has a good substantial summary I would be glad to get it, too.

BTW: A good overview on one page (alas again on German) can be found here:
link

Puster, the book seems very interesting. Please post tour impressions about it when it arrives!

Schaufelberger's book Der Alter Schweizer und Sein Krieg, which unfortunately is rather hard to find.

FINDing is not the problem with zvab, but 70 EUR is a pretty stiff pricetag :-)

"Studies on warfare in the 15th century" however sounds pretty good. Wish I had the money to follow all these threats into real paper…

OK, got it. No usefull information, mainly because its not a book with 80 illustration, but 80 selected illustrations on the Swiss military history with one page context, and nothing but. Most of these illustrations are from the 17th-20th century.
Not bad as a book, but also not usefull as a start for the given question – though it serves to illustrate developments with a pretty broad and selective brush.

Schaufelberger also wrote a book on Marignano, though, which includes not only the battle but covers the military system of the Swiss in comparison to the other European powers (especially France). This might be better, if concentrated on the early 16th century. It is, however, similar to his other book, above my "impulse buy" threshold.

Thank you for commenting, Puster. Do any of the illustrations show 16/17h century cavalry?

And about Schaufelberger's book on Marignano, what would be the period covered by the book?

One mounted messenger from the late 15th, one depiction of an Exercise reglement from the late 17th with plenty of individual (if small) cavalry. If you are a smoker and pm me your adress, I will send you the book as a gift – I bought it used and it smells pretty bad, it will take a year or two before I can read that other then outside. Shops that give an A condition to such a book deserve a boycot…

The book on Marignano tries to explain the defeat of the Swiss in the context of the military organisation of nation and army, so I assume it will be up to 1515 and go back a bit to explain the structure, though without actual access to the book I have no idea how detailed it is. I put both of his works on my "to buy" list, but there they compete with around 600 other titles :-/

I just read an article of Günther Franz on the origin of the Landsknechts, and he cites H.G. Wackernagel, "Kriegsbräuche in der mittelalterlichen Eidgenossenschaft" (1934) on the importance of fraternities for the development of the Swiss professional military, especially the mercenary (Reisläufer) aspect. Franz concludes that these also played a major role as predecessors for the German Landsknechts.

These "fraternities" seem to be leagues of young men who set themself apart from the society and whos public perception sways between communities for martial training and outlaws. They were around as "Freiheit" (Liberty), Blutzapfen oder Blutharste in southern Germany for more then two centuries.

Imho a possible modern equivalent is probably the biker culture, which also stands outside of the traditional society, has a martial codex and pretty harsh and rigid internal structures. The underlying social pattern may be similar (That comparison is mine, Franz wrote in 54).

Wackernagels work is available in a collection from the fifties: "Altes Volkstum der Schweiz", for a meagre 12 EUR as a used work (see zvab.de). I just ordered me an exemplar.

Puster, I just sent a PM asking the Editor to foward my adress to you. I'm a pipe smoker, so the smell shouldn't be a problem :D

Too bad the other book probably only goes up to the early 1500s. I'm trying to find something about the late 16th and 17th centuries, in which the swiss "dissappear" disappear from military history. Since I recently found a work discussing the "military revolution" in Denmark, which is also another country not frequently included in renaissance military studies, I tought there might be something similar dealing with the Swiss armies/militia…

I am quite sure the disappearance is mainly a political phenomenon, as the heavy losses at Marignano, Bicocca and Pavia were hard to bear on a political scale.
Marignano marks the end of the independent participation here, and this is exactly what the book allegedly covers.

BTW1: Denmark
The "Die Schlacht bei Hemmingstedt" bei Walther Lammers is imho one of the best analysis of a Renaissance campaign & battle around. It strifes aspects of the Danish military history, even when the political background for this campaign was the dukal power of he Danish king and the claim this brings on Dithmarschen. There is, however, not really that much on developments in Denmark.

BTW2: message
As we are both premium members, you should be able to message me using the small P-icon beside the name. Or you could just mail the webmaster of worldatwar.net. :-)

I figured that there wouldn' t be many books covering the period after Marignano for the reasons you mentioned. Still, since there were some "civil wars" between the cantons during this timeline, I kind of hoped to find something about the later 1500s/600s. I' m still trying to find, but it seems unlikely ):

And about Denmark, that work you mentioned sounds interesting! I was previously thinking about this onde though:
link
It has been on my "to buy" list for some time.

And thank you for the PM! I noticed it right after I sent you one :P

Looks interesting, though 34$ for a download of 13 pages is pretty stiff.
Perhaps Daniel can point you to some literature on the military history of Scandinavia that yield more information for your bucks :-)

If your German is good enough, the Lammers is worth it.
link

Dear Puster,

I'm just commenting on this thread to thank you very very much for the book. It has finally arrived, and I found it really interesting. You are a good man (:

All the best