"Airborne Universal Carriers?" Topic

I have heard that Universal Carriers were landed with gliders and used for towing AT-guns etc. But then I read that they were not...

Were they?

I've seen photos of carriers destroyed at Arnhem, which were meant to be towing 6 pdr AT guns. I think this must be treated caustiously as although the caption says Arnhem there is always a chance that it could have been on the 30 Corps corridor.

wasn't there a light tank too- I seem to recall something of that nature being discussed once....

The Tetrarch, was apparently used on D-Day, but not Arnhem. Not 100% sure though.

Some pictures: link

Larger vehicles such as Light Tanks, Universal carriers, Morris Quad and 17pdr guns would be landed by Hamilcar glider.

There are plenty of photographs of universal carriers and quads in Operation Market Garden: Then & Now.

Hi all

The Tetrach was used by 6th Airborne on D-Day.....QRF do a model in 15mm.....

None were used at Arnhem - I think some were used on the Rhine crossing.

The brit forces did try to airland a Cromwell - Didn't work so went back to using the Tetrach. Later in the war they changed from the Tetrach to the Locust.

There were some carriers used at Arnhem to tow the 6pdr A/T guns (my reference books are packed away at the moment otherwise I could find the info needed)

Hope this helps
MH

I seem to recall reading that the Carriers were mainly actually used for retrieving drop cannisters in the end; the ability to nip out into a drop zone, with at least a little armour protection, grab a cannister and scarper before you got shot was considered a *very* practical use for them....

Dom.

Universal Carriers where definitely air landed by British airborne forces and where carried in the Hamilcar glider.

However they were used in quite small numbers. Also, I believe their primary role, along with the Tetrarch, was armoured recognisance, rather than as a simple tow, that’s what the jeep was for. Having said that have a picture of a carrier of the 6th Airborne carrying at least 10 guys!

Cheers

Toby

Thank you all!

(Isn't TMP wonderful when you have a question?)

I'm with Dom,
I heard that the carriers a Arnhem were for retrieving cannisters as well. The stripped down 6lb anti tank guns were towed by jeeps and the 17lb anti tank guns were towed by Morris airborne tractors landed in Hamilcar gliders.The tanks were not used at Arnhem but Tetrachs were used in the second lift at Normandy and Locusts were used in the Rhine drop.

In Powell's memoire "Men at Arnhem", the author mentions the use of glider landed carriers. I think they appear in his description of the reatreat across the railway line toward Oosterbeek. The carriers found it hard to cross the raised rail line. It wa apparently very steep.

A Hamilcar glider could carry two Universal Carriers.

Each Para and Airlanding Battalion had a pair of Universal Carriers (hence why you see a Hamilcar included in their airlift plan). These were used primarily for transport of food and ammunition up to forward positions and for the transportation of casualties back. However, the battalion commander could use them for whatever he wished - hence why you see photos of them loaded with troops and dragging 6pdrs.

John Frost's memoir 'A Drop Too Many' mentions the two carriers accompanying his march to Arnhem Bridge and later he mentions that he had a coup-de-main force formed from the carriers and Freddy Gough's two armed Jeeps, who were standing by, ready to storm the southern end of the bridge at the first sign of XXX Corps' approach.

Aside from the two attached to each Para and Airlanding Battalion, there were also Carriers attched to the divisional Airborne RASC Company for recovering supplies from gliders and cannisters on the exposed landing/drop zones. Six Carriers flew into Arnhem with 250 Coy RASC in this role.

The divisional RE Field Park Company also took a Hamilcar - this might have been two carriers, or it may have been two light bulldozers. A US airfield construction battalion was also scheduled to go into Arnhem with 1st Airborne Division. Their order of battle included ten Hamilcars loaded with bulldozers and heavy stores.

Antitank units were not equipped with Carriers. Each 6pdr had a Jeep to tow it and another to tow the ammo trailer. A Horsa glider could acommodate a Jeep AND its 6pdr/trailer, plus all the crew. 17pdrs were towed by Morris 30cwt tractors until October 1944, when they were replaced by Dodge 1.5-ton light trucks. The 17pdr-tractor combination was carried by a Hamilcar.

The other big user of Universal Carriers in the airborne role was 6th Airborne Armoured Recce Regiment of 6th Airborne Division. During D-Day, twenty Hamilcars flew in carrying twenty Tetrarch Light Tanks of 'A' Squadron 6AARR (including 3-5 tanks armed with 3-inch howitzers). A further three Hamilcars flew in with 6x Recce Carriers of 'B' Squadron 6AARR, another flew in 2x 3-inch Mortar Carriers and another flew in the Slave Battery Carrier and a Jeep.

6th Airborne Armoured Recce Regiment had the following organisation prior to D-Day (modified during and after the landings due to losses and battlefield situation):

RHQ - 2x Tetrarch CS (3-inch howizter), two MMG Troops (each of 4x Vickers MMG, carried by Jeeps), Mortar Troop (2x 3-inch Mortars, carried by Universal Carriers) and Blitz Troop (20 men on motorcycles).

'A' (Light Tank) Squadron - SHQ of 2x Tetrarch CS and five troops, each of 4x Tetrarch (2pdr)

'B' (Recce) Squadron - SHQ of Jeep and Universal Carrier. Five Recce Troops (each of 1x Armed Jeep, 1x Armed Carrier & 5x motorcycles).

This was later modified by the addition of 8x Cromwell IVs, increasing to 12x Cromwell by the time the Seine was reached. They also had the Belgian Armoured Car Squadron and the Canadian Centaur Battery under command at this time.

After Normandy, the Tetrarch was finally binned and the regiment changed to two equal Recce Squadrons (A & B) and a Support Squadron (C). RHQ was now 2x Dingos and 3x Jeeps. Each Recce Squadron now had a Heavy Troop of 4x tanks (Cromwell when land-bound or Locust when airborne) and 3x Recce Troops, each of 2x Universal Carriers and 2x Dingos. Support Squadron had 2x MMG Troops mounted on Carriers and a 4.2-inch Mortar Troop, towed by Jeeps. There was also a Blitz Troop with 18x motorcycles and a Dingo.

The regiment fought in this new organisation in the Ardennes (using Cromwells but no Locusts).

During the Crossing of the Rhine, the 8x Locusts formed an independent Airborne Light Tank Half-Squadron and were landed by glider along with the 4.2-inch Mortar Troop. The rest of the regiment (including the Cromwells) crossed the Rhine by conventional means.

During the breakout to the Baltic, the Locusts were disbanded, but the regiment was expanded by the addition of the divisional Pathfinder Company, loaded onto Jeeps and light trucks.

There was never any experiment to fly Cromwells into battle.

Wow!

THanks R Mark Davies

I thought it strange to see listed airlanded cromwells (can't remember which list I saw this on)...

It makes sense now that the cromwells were used when used in the land role

Cheers
Rob

Heh, they certainly could have done with them! The problem was that the Allies didn't have a glider capable of doing it - though the German Gigant might just have managed it - and even if they did, there wasn't a tug aircraft capable of towing it (save possibly the B29?!).

The trouble with Airborne Armour was that it was just too lightweight for the period and theatre in which it was used. Ironically, the only airborne operation in NW Europe in which it might have made a difference was the only one in which it wasn't used - Arnhem. Information is sketchy, but it even appears that there were hardly any Tetrarchs still running by 1st September - but they'd acquired twelve Cromwells in the meantime by various unorthodox means!

Interestingly, the 1st Canadian Composite Centaur Battery reported gaining a Cromwell VII (95mm) from 6AARR to supplement its shagged-out Centaurs - but where did 6AARR get it from?!!

In the end, they realised that heavy gliders were just far better utilised bringing in more 17pdrs and bulk stores. During the Crossing of the Rhine, they flew in four troops of 17pdrs - that's double the previous number employed - plus a number of Hamilcars loaded to the eyeballs with ammunition and engineering stores.

Anyway guys, I'm glad you found this stuff useful - 6AARR seems to be the most mythologised unit in the entire campaign. There is so much wild conjecture and exaggeration in print that no wonder everyone's confused! ;o)

Oh and in case you were wondering, a Hamilcar could carry 2x Dingos, though they were never flown operationally.

Mark

1st Canadian Composite Centaur Battery - someone tell me about this one!

It was formed late July 1944 (I believe) from some of the leftovers of the Armoured Support Regiments, Royal Marines. It had three troops, each of 1x command/OP Sherman V and 4x Centaur IV (95mm close support howitzer). Battery HQ was equipped with at least 1x Sherman V. OC was Major DM Cooper and personnel totalled 7 Officers and 103 Other Ranks.

It was officially part of 1st Canadian Army Troops, but was directly attached to 6th Airborne Division (part of British I Corps, which was part of 1st Canadian Army). More specifically, it was assigned to support the 6th Airlanding Brigade (which included the Dutch and Belgian Brigade Groups) and came under the command of 6AARR during Operation 'Paddle' - the breakout to the Seine.

However, serviceability of the Centaurs was pretty awful and by 24th August only a single six-gun battery could be maintained. By the time of the race to capture Pont Audemer's bridge on the 26th, this had been reduced further to 3x Centaurs, 1x Sherman and the Cromwell VIII mentioned above. The unit was then disbanded on 30th August.

Incidentally, during the race for Pont Audemer, the Dutch Brigade (actually a reinforced battalion) mounted its advanced guard on the vehicles of 6AARR, 1CCCB and 1st Netherlands Recce Sqn for the dash to the bridge - it certainly makes for a cosmopolitan and unusual wargames army!

Mark

Ooo, something else worth mentioning is the development of the Alecto self-propelled gun chassis (based on the Light Tank Mk VIII 'Harry Hopkins' - the unused successor to Tetrarch). Now this was a piece of airborne armour that really might have made a difference, though the project was never pursued with any vigour and the only Alecto to see active service was the Alecto bulldozer. If anyone's interested, front armour was somewhere around 38mm (compared to the Tetrarch's 16mm) and the four gun versions had 95mm CS howitzer, 6pdr AT gun, 25pdr Field Gun and 32pdr (!) AT gun respectively. All were open-topped and none were ever used in a front-line unit.

There was a comment earlier about Carriers trying to cross a railway line - an ex-REME friend once told me that the one guaranteed way to throw the tracks off a Carrier was to drive over railway tracks! :o)

Slight ammendment to the above - the Harry Hopkins & Alecto were slightly too big and too heavy for the Hamilcar (8.5 tons, compared to the Tetrarch's 7 tons), yet there was no project to build a bigger aircraft. It does beg the question then, why an SP gun mounting something useful, like the 95mm CS howitzer or maybe the 77mm tank gun, wasn't developed from the Tetrarch?

A few years ago I was pestering the Airborne Forces Museum for some info, and they sent me a very brief list of items authorised to 1st Abn Div for Sept 1944, said to be authenticated by the curator. That listed nine Carriers as the basic allowance for the Div, but didn't give an indication of who had them. As I said it was a brief table, just a A4 sheet, the primary purpose of which seemed to be to correct 'errors' from another Div table, which was obviously taken from Joslen's OB book.

Here's some more information from Keith Flint's excellent book on Airborne Armour, which raises even more questions than answers:

'Of the 13 Hamilcars to be flown in on the 17th, eight would carry 17pdrs of the 1st Airlanding Battery... and the other five would carry ten universal carriers... The carriers were to supply transport for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Parachute Battalions, the 1st Border Regt and the 7th KOSBs. Of the fifteen Hamilcars for the next day, eight were to carry another eight 17pdrs of the 2nd Airlanding Battery, and another four carried a total of eight carriers which were to provide battalion transport for the three battalions of 4th Parachute Brigade and for the 2nd Battalion, South Stafforshire Regt. The other three were packed with ammunition, engineers and stores. This was something of an experiment, as it was thought the Hamilcar would provide a more efficient way of bringing in stores than the relatively small Horsa.'

It would seem from this that the RASC/RE gliders carried heavy stores instead of carriers?

The number of 17pdrs listed is also a puzzle - Middlebrook also lists 8x Hamilcars per battery, but only four 17pdr guns (which is repeated in almost all accounts).

More reading required... ;o)

Gary,

I've just had a thought - could they perhaps have assumed that there was only one Carrier per Hamilcar? That would give a total of nine carriers, rather than 18. There was definitely one Hamilcar alocated per battalion - it wouldn't make sense for them to be only half-loaded.

I've read that two Carriers each were alloted to the Borders and the KOSB Air Landing Bns (When Dragons Flew and Of at Last the sources), ostensibly as armoured OPs for the Mortar Groups.

These are a few of the notes on the table I mentioned -

75mm Pack howitzer, 24 allocated, 21 arrived at Arnhem
6 pdr ATk gun, 56 allocated, 48 arrived at Arnhem
7 pdr ATk gun, 16 allocated, 11 arrived at Arnhem

A trebuchet ought to do the job.