"Pathfinder DMs & Players out there" Topic

Heya, I'd like to get a weigh-in on something one of my players is wanting to do.

He is a 2nd lev Gunslinger with a musket, and is wanting me to make a judgment on him creating a suppressor. Nothing magical, a "using real-world physics" attachment.

I, as the DM, love the fact that the report of his weapon ruins surprise for the party, and see that as a balancing point for the class itself, especially at low levels. Later when they have more disposable wealth maybe he can have some form of magic to counter that.

BUT – players being players, they want all the advantages and no drawbacks, so he is pushing for creating/inventing something to suppress his weapon.

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I am actually considering allowing it as an "imperfect" device since it is a *new* invention. He'd take range and aim penalties in exchange, and as he goes up in levels, he can tinker with the invention to lessen those penalties until he "perfects" the suppressor (somewhere like 8th level I am thinking.)

ALSO – I'm thinking of making it only effective for a random number of shots at first (1d6+6) before needing replacing (again – a new, imperfect invention), with quality increasing as more time and effort is invested into perfecting it.

I guess I could lessen the penalties as well with the assistance of a specialist or eccentric and an appropriate amount of gold invested for said assistance.

What say other players/DM's out there?

I would say no. Maybe in 40K but not fantasy.

Never played pathfinder but if it was D&D I'd just try and get a permanent silence spell cast on the musket…….

I don't see how a musket could be effectively silenced using real world physics. You are igniting gunpowder; there is going to be a bang. I would ask him to at least give you a rough idea of how his suppressor would work and if he can't do this then I would tell him that his musket can only be silenced by magical means.

Thanks for the input so far.

A silence spell would be 10ft radius, I think that is why he does not ask about that route, as it would prevent communications and alertness (gunslinger would not hear ANYTHING while he wielded the weapon.)

I guess what we should do FIRST is clarify and get consensus on what comprises a musket. We are both prior USMC, but neither of us have done much detail reading into historical weapons and such… we have a general idea about the mechanics involved, but might be working off assumptions that are just patently false.

Like I had not considered the muzzle-loading aspect… the reloading could be tricky with an additional length of "suppressor" added to it.

I just Googled how a silencer works and I think you should completely ignore my previous post because I have just discovered that I do not have the faintest idea what I am talking about. Hopefully, someone who actually understands the physics involved will come along to give you a more informed answer.

If this is a musket and you have a flash pan---this I do not know how to suppress--but as far as "real world" goes I guess you need to determine the level of "tech" in the barrel.
I would assume in a pathfinder game you would not be screwing any type of supressor into the barrel. That leaves you with attaching a supressor by hand--I have seen simple setups with as little as tennis ball cans and a towel. But this is for a rifle and is mostly in the prone shooting posiiton.
One round of suprise with a cost of the gunslinger having to waste the next movement getting up from prone.
Also, no way to reload with the supressor attached.

They frequently through off accuracy, and balance, so, let the fun begin………

I wouldn't allow it. I don't allow players to transfer their understanding of modern science and technology to their characters who wouldn't have the first clue about such things. That's not role-playing that's meta-gaming.

Just my opinion of course.

I agree with DontFear and some of the others that have posted--he's trying to transfer modern knowledge to his character.

Now, it might actually be okay to allow it, if he can make some kind of knowledge or intelligence test--or maybe go on a quest to find someone that is an expert on HOW gunpowder weapons work. The more I think about it, the better that latter idea sounds, as it might make a nice plot device to force the group into certain situations.

Sound would still be a problem from the pan and the smoke and flash from the firing would still not allow the shooter to remain hidden.

Oh, and rather than just reduce chance to hit, also reduce damage (velocity might go down, too), double reloading time, and only allow reloading using paper or fabric charges (as you can't just pour loose powder down the barrel).

Rob

I would only allow as a single use item.

He would have to load the weapon and then attach the silencer.

Use would require 16 or better.

To continue use of the musket requires a new silencer, which would add to the difficulty and expense.

In terms of the mechanical aspect this video may be useful…

YouTube link

No muskets used but it provides one potential approach to investigate.

Well, it's entirely down to whether you feel that it fits with your background / setting. If you're happy with it then I wouldn't bother trying to ask the player 'how' it would work, or why bother with 'real world' mechanics. After all, it's his character that's creating it, not the player. Otherwise what's to stop a player who is a car mechanic in real life from having his character invent the internal combustion engine. The 'invention' has to suit the background, the character has to have the ability to invent such a device and there has to be an in-game and setting facilitated reason for it to be created.

So, if the character has the intelligence / resources to create it, and your background / setting can accommodate the invention of such a device then why not. You could turn it into a story arc whereby he has to find the materials / or an inventor to create the device. But be warned, if your setting can accommodate it what's to stop opponents from doing the same thing, either by their own accord or by copying his design.

Ian

Hmmm… if we were not already into an official, "Adventure Path," I could REALLY get into creating an entire campaign revolving around a PC and an NPC competing ala Tesla/Edison but to the *nth* RPG degree and both being GUNSLINGERS…

Gm: (to player)

"Let me get this straight. I want to be COMPLETELY sure I've got this right. You want to take a muzzle-loading blackpowder weapon, which in form and function differs from a pipe bomb ONLY in that sometimes the piece of shrapnel called a "bullet" comes out the front before the entire thing catastrophically fails mere inches from your face, and add a contraption onto the end of it. Where said bullet comes OUT."

"Furthermore, you want this contraption, which is HAND made, not at ALL using a precise piece of modern CNC milling equipment, to align a number of HAND MADE baffles with JUST enough clearance for the bullet… a soft lead HAND CAST object, and not the precise tooled cartridge we are familiar with today, for multiple uses, presumably being reloaded… brush, ramrod, and all..?"

"Because I hope you DO know this thing isn't being attached by threads. We haven't even HEARD of screws, or if we HAVE they look like this (google a 17th century hand-made screw) and certainly NOT being done to the end of a gun barrel. So that thing's gotta be ATTACHED. Permanently."

"Sure, go for it. I'll give it a 3-in-20 chance of exploding like a bomb every time you fire it, going up by one every subsequent time it's fired… and a 5-in-12 chance of it actually silencing anything, going DOWN by 1 every time it's fired."

Real world physics ? who needs them. This is fantasy. If it looks cool, why not let it happen. We've all watched thousands of TV programmes / films where the characters do stuff that's technically not possible inm the real world, from casting fireball spells to firing MG's that appear to have an infinite number of bullets. If it helps the story to rip along at an interesting pace then I'm more than happy to ignore most 'real world' restrictions.

Ian

A point not mentioned yet, is that the bullet itself is supersonic, so it makes a mini boom as it goes down range. More of a sharp sqeek, or chirp sort of a sound, but not quiet at all. All a supressor does is make it harder to locate your position. it wont do much to not alert the badguys he is in the area.

but hey, dont tell him that. Let him wonder why he is losing surprise. This is why I dont allow technology in fantasy games. As soon as you do, many gamers, me to when i was young, want to start doing things they know will work, but that thier charecters have no idea ever existed.

owen