"Battling in the Star Trek 'verse" Topic

Well I have extra copies of the FasA starship Combat Simulator PM me or go to Starfightershipyards.com and send me an email off of there, lots of minis there too.

Don't forget Federation Commander. It has a lot of the same 'decision points' as SFB, but streamlined rules. It definitely provides a fun game.

-Will

If you're still looking for rules, there's also the official Star Fleet Battles universe Starmada rules, although I'm looking to convert those into TOS and Movies 1-4 ships rather than SFB's take. Less of a captain's game and more of a commander's game.

For campaigning, there a few options – Victory By Any Means, Stellar Strike by Precis Intermedia, and Starfire's Admiral's Challenge (with some tweaking).

I know a fellow who can cast any of the FASA Star Trek minis including over 20 that FASA NEVER made his prices are very reasonable.

I haven't tried them yet, but the Engage rules from Red Wyvern Games look very Trek inspired. You can find them here: link

From Ad Astra games there is Attack Vector Tactical which is here: link

and also from AA games there is Squadron Strike which is here:
link

They both look interesting although I haven't tried either. Squadron Strike claims to"let you design and fly spaceships from any universe," so if that rings true it will work for Trek.

Those are certainly options worth looking at for the ship battles.

As far as campaigns go you could try Platoon Forward from Too Fat Lardies to add color to your campaign. It includes rules to provide motivation for your crew and although it was designed for land combat it should be easily transferable to a setting like Trek. You can find it here: link

For skirmishes with troops you've got tons of options in that almost nay skirmish game can be modified easily to incorporate new weapons. Popular options will no doubt include Quadrant 13 from TFL here: link 5150: Star Army from Two Hour Wargames here: link and and Mutants and Death Ray Guns from Ganesha Games which is here: link .

The last of those is designed more for apocalypse games but could easily be converted into a sci-fi setting.

Before paying for any of those I'd suggest trying 2HW's Chain Reaction 3.1 here: link which is free. If you like it you can easily modify it for Trek yourself or just purchase 5150.

I'll post more about miniatures for use with all of those, but for now real life intervenes.

@ Will
do the cards substitute for models or is it a classic card game you play on a little space opposite your opponent? For those interested, it's here:

The card game is 'Star Fleet Battle Force' and I've never played it so I can't tell you much about it.

Federation Commander is here:
link

It plays a lot like SFB, just with most of complexity reduced to something more manageable for casual play. It's played with miniatures or counters of a hex grid. If you play SFB you should be able to pick up the rules in no time.

-Will

do the cards substitute for models

The card game is 'Battle Force'; Fed Commander is SFB-lite, no matter how much the author complains. ;->=

How it GETS to 'lite' makes it different enough to be considered separately.

There's a free light 'lite' to download, under Free Demo, to see what I mean.

PDF link

Still too close to SFB for my tastes, but I could hold my nose and play.

Doug

Edit: @wminsing ;->=

By the way, the card game is not bad, though you can see yourself pulling ships from different factions. While not a match, it's a bit like playing Mag Blast.

I found it a vast improvement over their previous Star Fleet Missions.

There is also the series of Starmada/Star Fleet books, which port the SFB stuff over to Starmada (Admiralty edition of which is a GREAT game, in my opinion).

Doug

Also note for Federation Commander is that complexity is *reduced*, not removed. It's still fairly complex! :)

-Will

Well there is A Call to Arms Star Fleet, and despite the many problems it's had, it's still a viable system, with nice miniatures. The rules have had a re-write and should be available in a few weeks, I hear, though there is no solid re-release date.

I was big into ACTA:SF, got a sour taste in my mouth as it were from some of the problems that came up, stopped running games of it for people. I hope the new rules are a step forward, and that I regain some interest in playing it again (I have 150+ Starline 2500 ship minis that need to be used more often).

Guess I shouold be more specific – I'm looking for a ship battle game / setting / campaign for ST

I use 5150: Star Navy for my Star Trek ship gaming. Has a great campaign system.

Here's my most recent write up – link

Star Fleet Battles is an outstanding game in its original incarnation. Gamers being gamers and game designers being game designers kept expanding the game until it became unplayable by mere mortals. Winning the game became a matter of knowing more special rules than your opponent.

That being said, it is entirely possible to regain the excitement of Star Trek TOS and the simple enjoyment of the original, playable, pocket edition.

A lot of the original supplements and rules editions, including the original pocket edition are availble through Warehouse 23 in PDF form.

link

Guess I shouold be more specific – I'm looking for a ship battle game / setting / campaign for ST, not figures for a mini game. Altho I have Chain Reaction and no doubt it and 5150 could be used to 'Trek around!

I'd suggest Federation Commander.

It still has a bit more detail than I think the captain of a ship should be dealing with (what brain donor of an engineer makes ships so underpowered that they cannot arm all weapons and still travel at full speed?), but the Star Fleet universe is pretty solidly anchored in TOS and the Animated Series. Obviously, the center of the galactic map is the Federation, and the 'explored territories' reach past the Klingons, Romulans, and Gorn to the folks on the other side of their respective territory, so that events on the far side of Klingon territory can have an effect on how many ships are deployed to the Fed/Klingon border.

Lots and lots of ship classes in existence, ranging from police cutters to battleships, and there are even rules for fast attack craft and a few fighters (one race is heavily figher-using, while one of their neighbors loves bringing fast attack craft). No monster 'supercarriers', though, the heaviest carrier only carries 30 fighters, and some 'space control ships' carry 24 fighters and 6 fast attack craft.

It's a shame that the Prime Directive roleplaying rules are founded in GURPS, but there's still plenty of data to extract to a system you like better.

As noted above, the games of the Star Fleet Universe have their own history and technology base to work with.

In the SFU, the Milky Way Galaxy map looks quite different to that you'd see drawn up for the post-1979 Paramount/CBS franchise. (None of the Franchise factions which have surfaced in more recent years exist in the SFU. There is no Dominion, no Cardassians, and no Borg. Instead, there is a vast array of "SFU-native" factions, such as the Lyrans, the Hydrans, and the Inter-Stellar Concordium.)

It is divided into sectors and octants, rather than quadrants. Each habitable region of the galaxy is made quite difficult to reach from another by the Voids: vast areas of dead space which no "normal" ship can safely cross.

The factions of the Alpha Octant (to include the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans) proceed through a timeline which marks how far they expand, what technology types they possessed in various eras, and when they first came into contact with more distant empires. (The "modern" borders are shown on the hex map for the strategic game Federation and Empire.)

Two of the four other octants (Sigma and Sargasso) are as yet undetailed. The Xorkaelian Empire over on the far side of the galaxy are a "big bad", set to trouble the Alpha Octant near the end of the recorded timeline. While the Omega Octant has been explored in five SFB modules, as well as a playtest pack for FC.

Other known factions exist beyond the Milky Way, also. The SFU take on the Tholians has them as exiles, fleeing from the M81 Galaxy (which they had conquered and ruled over prior to their spectacular fall from grace). A mysterious set of invaders came from the Andromeda Galaxy to assault our galaxy; they used the Lesser Magellanic Cloud as a beach-head, which spelled trouble for the indigenous LMC empires they ran into. While a playtest file looks over to the Triangulum Galaxy, where a host of new factions and technologies are in play.

-----

As for the tactical games themselves, each offers a different set of options, or rather a different focus of play.

Star Fleet Battles (by which I mean the current Captain's Edition) is the oldest of the set, with the most ships, technologies, and settings supported. You can go back to the dawn of tactical warp combat and fly the planetary fleets which served prior to the formation of a unified Star Fleet in the Early Years modules. Or go forward to the era of first-generation advanced technology, and use a range of more powerful warships to try and hold the line against the Andromedan invaders. Or you can go "sideways", and explore new frontiers in Omega, the LMC, and elsewhere. (A long-awaited future module will go into the era of second-generation advanced technology, the one in which the Xorkaelians show up to cause trouble.)

But in game terms, SFB offers the highest degree of granularity. You have a lot to manage on your starship, and many options in terms of the tools at your disposal when carrying out a given mission. This works well in duels, or in scenario-specific encounters, but can make larger engagements harder to manage.

Federation Commander has a smaller range of options than SFB, but still has a healthy array of fleets to fly and tactics to fly them with. (Omega and the LMC each have playtest packs for FC, while a preview of the Early Years was shown in Captain's Log #39.)

Game-wise, FC streamlines many concepts from SFB, but also changes some of the dynamics in play. For example, ships are encouraged to use speed and maneuver to survive, as there are much fewer defensive options here than in SFB. Some tactics which work in one game will get you killed in the other, and vice versa. Scale-wise, FC can handle duels, and works well with smaller squadrons.

The SFU support in Starmada exists for both the Admiralty and Nova editions of that game system. By and large, there is a higher amount of abstraction in the latter, in terms of each ship's individual stats.

In both cases, the onus is on larger fleet actions. Neither system is really suited for duels, but you can use both to try and get a sense of how a given fleet operates as a composite unit.

As noted above, a revised "version 1.2" of A Call to Arms: Star Fleet is on the way, which should fix some of the bugs and issues that had cropped up in the first edition.

As with Starmada, this game is really aimed at fleet actions. Both it and Starmada use their own third-party game engines that seek more to "re-interpret" the feel of the SFU in their respective systems. ACtA:SF does include a series of special actions, which seek to echo the kind of power management you handle more directly in SFB or FC.

-----

And in role-playing terms, Prime Directive is currently supported in GURPS 4th Edition and D20 Modern. While a version using Mongoose Traveller is in the works, if you'd prefer to wait for that incarnation.

Go generic Starmada fleet Ops. Or Full Thrust.

SFB/Federation Commander will give you a game that feels like TO Trek IF you don't go ape with drone carrying ships.imo the drones really slow the game and break the flavor.

As another option I would choose the Starmada:Admiralty edition Trek rule sets.

I've played both SFB and FASA's STCS and preferred the later, simply because it captured the feeling of the series better (it was intended to be a supplement for the RPG game as well as a free-standing game). Because of this, multiple ship combat was easy to play and the allocation of points to move, shoot and raise shields made no two games the same. The quality of commanders and crew were vital, allowing bonuses on movement, targeting, sensor scans and especially, as ships took progressively more hits, damage control and repairing knocked out systems.

Although SFB was enjoyable, it was more removed from the idea of the series, with drones, fighters, and a too much chrome. It felt like playing a modern naval wargamers version of Star Trek, not a Treckers.

Both Star Fleet Battles and Federation Commander offer means by which to reduce, or avoid, the presence of seeking weapons and attrition units.

In SFB, the "unrefitted" versions of most "pre-war" modern Federation ships (CA, DD, FF, and others) generally lack drones, and Star Fleet had no carriers in service by then either. (The various stages of refits for these ships are usually shown as integrated into a single SSD.)

While in FC, that same "Middle Years" era is split off into its own sub-setting, with most of the Ship Cards needed for it in Briefing #2 and Booster Pack #91. (FC tends to split the unrefitted and refitted versions of a single hull into separate Middle Years and Main Ers Ship Cards, in contrast to the approach taken over in SFB.)

This is in keeping with how (obliquely) the SFU refers to the on-screen source material permitted under ADB's arcane licensing agreements. The Middle Years era generally runs from the Y120s through to Y162 or thereabouts. In that era, the incident at Talos IV took place in Y142 (according to [GURPS Federation), while a certain well-known "five-year mission" ranged from Y154 to Y159.

And that is just when sticking to the Alpha Octant at the "modern" technology level. The Early Years offers two generations' worth of less "polished" tactical warp-powered starships, though the SFU has no NX-01. (SFU history does not overlap with that shown on-screen in Star Trek: Enterprise. Earth ships in the SFU had no saucers; the "saucer-and-nacelle" design was instead a hallmark which helped distinguish the ships of the united Star Fleet from the older hull types built by each of the major member planets.)

While some of the alternate settings (such as Omega and the LMC) generally try to keep the necessary amount of on-board clutter to a minimum, at least relative to what you see in the late General War back in Alpha. (Ironically, one of the factions in Omega, the Federal Republic of Aurora, would go on to do more with the old Terran design templates than Star Fleet itself would bother with.)

If you try First Missions and like the glimpse it offers of Federation Commander, there are three products that would help give a good sense of the "original series" era (as the Star Fleet Universe portrays it):

*The FC Reference Rulebook,
*FC: Briefing #2,
and
*FC: Booster Pack #91.

(The FCRRB is available in print from ADB and electronically via Warehouse 23, DriveThruRPG, and the Wargame Vault. The print edition of FCB2 is in black-and-white, though the Middle Years Ship Cards included are offered in a series of colour PDF packs on W23. While FCB91 is only available as a set of laminated colour Ship Cards.)

The FCRRB is currently at revision 6a, and is a good way to get settled in with the core mechanics of the game system. FCB2 comes with a half-page worth of era-specific rule adjustments, along with Ship Cards for several empires which were active in the Middle Years era. While FCB91 includes the "ships of Franz Joseph"; those sourced ultimately from the Star Fleet Technical Manual.

FC offers a fair number of options in other areas, but these files may be enough to help get you up and running in the time period where SFU history most closely intersects with the on-screen source material.

Note that the above does not include any miniatures, maps, or counters, though you should be able to order those from ADB (the latter two as spare parts) if needs be.

You'd need to step away from the Star Fleet Universe products if you want to design your own ships. Nothing wrong with wanting to build your own, but DIY shipbuilding just isn't supported in those games.

I downloaded FC lite, and I'm really tempted to jump back into the Star Fleet Universe. I really despise the more recent TV series (Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise), and couldn't be bothered with the movies. Any of the movies.

The way I see it, the Star Fleet Universe games would have to have really intricate design-your-own rules, but instead they have a massive number of ships and variants already made for you. Assign class names as the capabilities match.

Also note that Amarillo Design Bureau currently makes 2 different sizes of ships – Starline 2400 1/3788 and the newer Starline 2500 1/3125. The 2200,2300 and 2400 are all the same scale just newer designs as the lines progress. There are lots of ships available.

The 2500 are CAD and printed ships that are only available straight from ADB. There are some boxed sets out there that were the initial release from Mongoose before they dumped the project. There are only 7 factions available so far. Those ships may be either resin or metal depending on when they were made. ADB is reworking the rules ( A Call to Arms: Star Fleet) and continuing to develop and release new ships. They are very good looking minis.

link

So there are choices out there for minis to.

The ADB rule sets: SFB, FC, Klingon Armada, and ACTA:SF have different levels of play. They will all do single ship duels, but playing SFB with more than one or two ships per player means a really long game. The others support bigger battles to differing degrees.

The SFBM is a bit dated, although you could make the same accusation against SFB. I've not played SFBM, only read-through and solo gamed to see how the mechanics work. I wouldn't recommend it for any except hard-core Trek gamers, with a lot of patience.

I played an insane amount of the FASA Simulator when I was younger, but wouldn't recommend it for more than squadron-sized fights. It does take a while, and, like SFB, all the power allocation can get tedious. I did work out a fleet battle game from the stats in that system, which allowed 30+ ships per side. All without a spreadsheet! I had too much time on my hands at age 15…

I do like A Call to Arms: Star Fleet, even though I got rather singed by the game. (I used to sell it.) I'm working on a campaign system for it at the moment, to fight the Four Years War from the FASA RPG setting. The pewter miniatures are rather good, the early resins, not so nice.

MacrossMartin my friend and I are in the early stages of our Four Years War Campaign and with the amount of FASA miniatures we have several ship types from both sides.

As for rules we can do the FASA rules or we could use the StarBlazers rules because we have adapted the FASA ships into those rules.

But I like to ask you when you said "The pewter miniatures are rather good the early resins,not so nice" what resin miniatures are you talking about?

Capt. Gideon – I mean the Starline 2500 miniatures that were released for ACTA. I took delivery of about $1,000 USD worth of the original resin castings when the line first came out. To my horror, less than one miniature in 5 was in sellable condition.

Pewter castings of the same miniatures came out rapidly thereafter, but Mongoose were a bit hasty in their effort to undo the damage; the early Pewter minis have huge casting channels, etc. Still, they're a big improvement on the resins.

After seeing the Star Trek: Axanar prequel, my gaming group seems eager for a 4YW fight. Probably going to use 2500 ships, as that's what most people here have.

I have a ton of the FASA minis too, but not enough!! What are you using for Antons and L6 frigates?

MacrossMartin what I'm using for Antons and L6 Frigates are Antons and L6 Frigates.

I have a friend who can cast in metal any of the FASA minis and the following:

Federation
Continent
Anton
Brenton
Durrett
Thufir
Derf

Klingon
L-13
D-20
D-11
D-14
K-27
K-22
D-32

Romulan
V-4
M-4
V-1
V-20
V-27
T-2

If you're interested I can hook you up with my friend if you would like to get some more?

Let me know.

Sounds interesting… Love to see some pics, Captain. :)

MacrossMartin please send me an email at yamamoto87@hotmail.com and I can send you some pictures of some of these ships.

@Queen Catherine: Well, what I was getting into was that the various TV shows (and even the movies) aren't covered under the Star Fleet Universe, so you aren't going to see a 'Voyager-class' or the Enterprise-D anywhere.

If you wanted to play one of those ships, you'd need to use a game that supports design-your-own.

@Queen Catherine,

Based on what you've said I'm not sure the ACTA or Starmada versions of Star Fleet Battles will suit you. They're more suited to fleet and squadron level actions and while they CAN handle a single ship fighting a single ship it is not their forte. They don't provide the individual ships captains with the same level of choice that SFB itself does.

Having said that, SFB is VERY complex, but you can probably pick up the basic edition for cheap on eBay and see if you like it. It has been compared to Advanced Squad Leader in terms of complexity and rightfully so. While there are fan written additions for TNG and beyond it is really suited to the TOS era (and only TOS) even the TMP and other movie eras aren't really dealt with.

Federation Commander is a less complex option and I'd certainly recommend it to someone unfamiliar with SFB. If you find it too simple you can always try SFB.

Also worth considering for campaign purposes are the old FGU games (now published by Goblinoid Games) "Starships & Spacemen" RPG and the related "Star Explorer." They are both clearly Trek inspired games. Both games are very close in feel to the original series, enough so that I'm surprised they weren't sued by Paramount.
"Starships & Spacemen" is a more or less a straight up RPG where as "Star Explorer" places the player in the role of the ship's captain on a mission of exploration (and sometimes combat) along with the usual complications that arose in TOS (as well as TNG etc) episodes. "Star Explorer" has the adiitional advantage that it can be played as a solo game, but it also works as a multi-player game with each player taking the role of a different ship's captain, and it will work very well as a scenario generator/campaign game.

You can see "Starships and Spacemen" here: link and "Star Explorer" here link

Having said all that FASA's ST RPG and the related ST Tactical Combat Simulator were and remain my favorite Trek RPG and sci-fi ship combat game. ST:TCS works well for duels between two ships but also easily does squadron and even fleet level engagements. It does lack some features I would like in a ship combat game, but all in all, it's still the best (in my humble opinion).

I have a spare copy of the FASA ST:Tactical Combat Game and I've been planning on selling that and the entirety of my FASA Trek RPG collection on eBay, but I can PM my email address if you're interested in considering buying them. If not they'll be on eBay shortly.

Queen Catherine I got your email today and I tried to send you some pictures but for some reason it failed.

So I sent you another email without the pictures just to see if you got it so I'm waiting on that.

If that fails might you have another email address that I can send you pictures?

Queen Catherine it would appear that something might be wrong with your email address.

After I sent the email to you I got it back saying Delivery Status Notification (Failure)þ.

So please send me another email and I hope to send you pictures sometime today.

@Queen Catherine,

You should check out Starmada as well. Its the same level of complexity as FT. Nice thing is if you get tired of designing your own ships you can pick up all the Star Fleet adaptation books that have been published (Klingon Armada etc).