"Seekreig 5... worth $300???" Topic

Undeterred by countless peoples smarter than I, I seem to have become enamored with the idea of Seekreig 5, but I just totaled up what I will need to spend to get the rules and ship charts. its close to $300. USD

Is it really worth this? that would make it far and away the most I will have spent on rules. my entire ACW collection cost me only a little more, and I can fight Gettysburg or Kennesaw mtn.

I'd say no…

But YMMV

Eric

No. I would spend maybe $50 USD but no more. And I like Seekrieg 4.

Seems a bit much in one go. Do you need it all to start?

If you want to do the Russo-Japanese War it appears the cost is around $110 USD or the same for WW1 Germany-UK. WW2 in Pacific would be more expensive… about $135 USD for Japan/UK/USA

Plus postage of course.

You could do the usual gamer way (or at least my usual way) and buy it a theatre at a time. Seems a bit cheaper even though it's not.

See if any friend wants a particular theatre and let them buy those ship card CDs?

If you have to ask, methinks you have already answered the question to yourself.

As for me, I would hesitate to spend more on the rules than the figures.
Hey, wait a minute… I already do that with Flames of War! But in that case, *I* think it's worth while.

Seekreig 4 is available for free.

I have read a few reviews that, and I'm paraphrasing here, basically say 4 and 5 are vastly different games. all the "negative stuff" seems to be geared towards version 4. I'm not saying anything by this, don't shoot me plz. also I read that version 5 is better laid out and "explains" why things are the way they are, which may be better for me as I am just getting involved with naval games seriously.

John, you are probably correct, but I've never been accused of being over smart!

Dragon, that is a very good idea, unfortunately sabotaged by the fact that I'm the only one really interested in this at the moment. things around here seem to go on a "work on your own project then we will all play it" basis. not as badly as it sounds, but the premise is there.

it seems that I can get the rules for $78 USD, and it SAYS it comes with a few boats and scenarios, but I would kinda like an idea of what I'm getting before I go that route.

It's not the rules that are the problem. All the CD's of ships data, so you don't have to do all the work yourself are expensive.

I would argue it depends how much do you value your time?

Play Naval Thunder. Far less money. Far more fun.

link

… it SAYS it comes with a few boats and scenarios

It doesn't come with any models but it does come with some ship cards, on CD so you'll have to print them. Some scenarios. If you join the Seerkrieg V yahoo group there are lots more free ship cards and scenarios.

In fact I certainly suggest that, then click over to files and check out what is available.

The rules aren't that complicated. Tons and tons of charts, very few actually used in a game, but I suppose it is scary.

You'll use the ship cards, the H2 chart, an L chart depending on the year of construction, and the critical hit chart.

Of course torpedoes, aircraft, sub's all make it more complicated so don't use them until you are comfortable with it. Or do a small scenario.

Even if you have to buy it all, you don't have to buy it all at once. Decide which era and war you most want to play and get just the rules and those ship cards. There are "deals" which bundle a pair of CDs for a, small, savings.

Have fun

Some comments for what they are worth …

> Don't judge SK5 by what you see in SK4. There is a cosmically vast difference between the two. They are in many ways two completely different rule sets.

> You most emphatically do NOT need to pony up USD300 up front in order to play the game – unless you have an irresistible compulsion to possess all the ship charts for nearly all the world's warships from 1885 to 1945 before you throw the first dice.

> I second the recommendation that you join the Seekrieg forum @ Yahoo Groups and make some inquiries. It will be profitable for you to understand what you will be getting for your money, which is a lot IMO.

> I also suggest that you play a few SK5 games before buying. If your interests lean toward the simulation side of wargaming, you will likely find SK5 useful and interesting. But OTOH, every gamer has his own calculus when making such value judgements.

B

Yeah, i meant ship cards by boats, my bad. I think i will investigate the yahoo group tonight. Didn't even think of it, duh!
Hopefully the author is active and can tell me what exactly is in that tome

RAF, you make a valid point. I quit playing grand fleets by mj12 because im no good at math whatsoever. took me two hours to create one ship! and I think I did it wrong…

Dreadnought, most of my limited naval games have been naval thunder. don't worry I am a fan of your rules, have religiously bought everything you put out, just haven't got around to stars reach yet. I'm in the process of converting my group from gq to nt.

basically I'm looking at currently using naval thunder for medium sized battles, battle stations battle stations for large ones, and seekreig5 for 1v1 stuff. Basically I'm just really intrigued by how they say damage works in the game, aka no hull boxes/ damage points, just effects.

Blutarski,
Thank you. I had previously read that 4 & 5 was very different.
and yes I do have some form of OCD, that makes me want ALL the boats, mwahahaha!!!

Basically I'm just really intrigued by how they say damage works in the game, aka no hull boxes/ damage points, just effects.

There are damage points but they don't work like most naval games and are minor. When they each a certain point they may cause damage. Or not.

But yes the damage system is the major difference.

Harpoon 4+ and Command at Sea 4+ try to use a similar system bolted on top of the old damage type game. Not too successful, at least in my opinion.

The ship cards are great, same ship through the years and refits.

Unfortunately the Minor Navies ship card has been a casualty of Real Life so far

Seas of War WWI is a far better deal. Free.

One older WWI rule set has damage effects rather than hull boxes is Cordite and Steel. (SOW has hull boxes) But CAS has range estimation which requires it to be played on a large floor with no repeating patterns.

IMO, SK5 is not for the first time naval gamer unless experienced with complex rules and numerous charts and isn't overwhelmed by them or if you are dissatisfied with the damage mechanisms of the other lower priced naval rulesets; then try SK5. However, if you are a neophyte to naval gaming, I'd recommend you start first with some of the other lower priced rules or free rules and see if naval gaming is for you. (note almost all the rulesets are usuable with any scale miniatures with some range modifications).
link
Free:
Fire on the Waters has some similar firing mechanisms to SK5 with a damage mechanism that is NOT damage points based. medium to high complexity.
Seas of War is also free and setting up ship charts a bit more involved than some others.medium to high complexity
Commercial rules:
Command at Sea 4 has been revamped from their vs 3 and even 4 had a free upgrade concerning its damage pt system that is needed to correct all its fleet books. It is not a range estimation game as someone above states (tho almost all naval games could be played that way, using the game's damage systems for each hit obtained via range estimation-fletcher pratt game method.)
GQ3 is a medium complexity game, very popular, and not very expensive. You can choose either their ww1 or ww2 rulesets and they come with ship charts that you can photocopy.
Naval thunder and GHQ's Micronauts are low-medium complexity and relatively inexpensive. NT has separate rules/charts for ww1 and ww2, & (IIRC) predreadnaughts. Micronauts is ww2.
Some like Axis and Allies War at Sea and Mongooses' Victory at Sea for their low complexity and relative inexpensive cost.
There are also some other naval rules that I did not cover above (SeaPower by Alnavco just came to mind).

One aspect that the SK5's cds save is the player time usually spent in making out ship cards. With the ruleset one gets a couple of battles with the necessary ship cards (river plate and denmark straits for ww2, a few others for ww1 and earlier). So one must buy the CD's for the nations that you are interested in gaming with. That fact that each cd covers all that nation's ships regardless of period may or may not be of benefit. (Personally I dont game pre-WW1 or inter war 1930's what-ifs, so those charts aren't of benefit to me at this time. YMMV).
Don't be overwhelmed by all the charts in the SK5 base rules. Although very useful as reference materials, typically only a few are used for setting the game parameters and then a few for firing and hits and then the damage manual for damage determination each game.

thanks for the suggestions. I am looking at Fire on the waters, it looks interesting, but I can't seem to download the ship files or the scenarios…
any suggestions?

"But CAS has range estimation which requires it to be played on a large floor with no repeating patterns."

Wrong. CaS has range estimation as an OPTION (for those who want to replicate the days of Fletcher Pratt). The main rules use the a die roll driven/probability system.

Fire on the waters here:
link

just did a download and the various sections work fine with my PC. They are PDF pages- open and then save to your PC.

"Wrong. CaS has range estimation as an OPTION (for those who want to replicate the days of Fletcher Pratt). The main rules use the a die roll driven/probability system."
I don't see any probability system in Cordite and Steel (CAS). What page is it on?

SK5 is a great set of rules for small ship actions. Larger actions, I use "Fire when Ready" which is a great set of pre-dreadnaught rules.

CaS is generally the abbreviation for Command at Sea, from Clash of Arms games. It does not use range estimation.

"I don't see any probability system in Cordite and Steel (CAS)."

Read that as 'Command at Sea' by Clash of Arms (my bad). Plus I doubt anyone would still be playing Cordite and Steel. IIRC (and I haven't seen hide nor hair of the thing for at least 30 years) that set of rules did not have much going for it.

"Cordite and Steel" – LOL, that brings back disturbing memories.

B