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"Pzkw III and IV allocation Kursk" Topic


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kustenjaeger15 Aug 2014 3:16 p.m. PST

Greetings

A question was asked on another site that I can't for some reason post on about the company allocation of Panzer III and IV in 1943.

I don't have a full picture but Didier Lodieu's III Pz Korps at Kursk has some data:

Pz-Div.6: II/Pz-Rgt.11 (I/ was in Germany re equipping)
HQ: 6 Pz II, 7 Pz III lg, 8 Pz III(75)
5.kp: 4 Pz III(75), 10 Pz III lg, 6 Pz IV lg
6.kp: 4 Pz III(75), 8 Pz III lg, 7 Pz IV lg
7.kp: 4 Pz III(75), 7 Pz III lg, 8 Pz IV lg
8.kp: 3 Pz III(75), 9 Pz III lg, 8 Pz IV lg + (att?) 13 flammpanzers

Pz-Div.7: Pz-Rgt.25
Stab: 3 PzBef, 4 Pz II
I/Pz-Rgt.25
HQ: 2 PzBef, 4 Pz II
1 kp: 2 Pz IV, 13 Pz III
2.kp: 2 Pz IV, 14 Pz III
3.kp: 15 Pz IV
II/Pz-Rgt.25
HQ: 2 PzBef, 4 Pz II
4.kp: 2 Pz IV, 14 Pz III
5.kp: 2 Pz IV, 14 Pz III
6.kp: 15 Pz IV

Pz-Div.19: Pz-Rgt.27
Stab: 2 PzBef, 1 Pz III lg
I/Pz-Rgt.27
HQ: 1 Pz III lg, 1 Pz III kz, 1 Pz III(75)
1 kp: 5 Pz III lg, 3 Pz III(75)
2.kp: 5 Pz III lg, 3 Pz III(75)
3.kp: 9 Pz IV lg
4.kp: 9 Pz IV lg, 2 Pz IV kz
II/Pz-Rgt.27
HQ: 2 PzBef, 5 Pz III lg, 1 Pz III kz
5.kp: 5 Pz III lg, 3 Pz III(75)
6.kp: 9 Pz IV lg
7.kp: 9 Pz IV lg

Note that I haven't corroborated the totals and some of the allocations e.g. Pz-Div.6 I/Pz-Rgt.11 HQ look odd.

Anyway, the net result is consistently inconsistent.

Note that Jentz's Panzertruppen vol 2 gives an allocation for Pz-Rgt.11 in April 1943 down to platoon (zug).

Regards

Edward

pzivh43 Supporting Member of TMP15 Aug 2014 5:03 p.m. PST

Wonder if the numbers for 6 Pz Div II/Pz Regt 11 HQ are the extras that the I Bn left behind when they went to Germany to re-equip??

donlowry17 Aug 2014 8:50 a.m. PST

I never knew that 75mm-armed Pz IIIs were used in ordinary panzer battalions. I thought they were only used to support Tiger I units. Learn something every day!

Gary Kennedy17 Aug 2014 9:21 a.m. PST

A few books give the overall returns and it looks like things were very muddled in terms of Mk IIIs and IVs. The snub nosed IIIs were with Pz Bns and I think some Pz IVs as well. The example for 11th Pz Regt is, I suspect, that odd example of someone recording the detail at the time that us folks want to know decades later. Most AFV returns just give an overall number for a Div, with no indication of subunit allocation.

Gary

christot19 Aug 2014 4:21 p.m. PST

Zetterling and Frankson give the following for 4 July 1943

6th pzr:
13 x lt pzr
52 x pzr III
13 x flammpzr
28 x pzr IV
14 x marder

7th pzr
12 lt pzr
62 pzr III
38 pzr IV
6 marder
6 wespe
6 Hummel

19th pzr

5 lt pzr
38 pzr III
38 pzr IV
12 marder

This gives numbers for vehicles both operational and in workshops, although at that date very few would be in repair,
Not entirely sure what "lt pzrs" are, a guess would be pzr II
or any other light command tanks. Zetterling's page note wonders whether some Bfhlpzr in regt and div staffs were included.

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