grommet37 | 14 Aug 2014 4:40 p.m. PST |
A quick question for fellow researchers: Can you recommend a good source for military information regarding North American operations of the period, specifically details such as soldier's kit, weapons, vehicles and tactics? An emphasis on wilderness operations, ranged use of melee weapons, and skirmish tactics in particular is always welcomed. ;) I checked out a sizeable pile of dense and/or oversized tomes for a quick skim/scan, so something fairly concise, which concentrates on the military details, as opposed to overall historical, political, social aspects would be much appreciated. I have my eye on an Osprey (or two), ofc. A specific reference for Northeast Woodland Native American costume/kit, weapons, vehicles and tactics would be also much appreciated. I found several encyclopedic Native Nations of America" books, I'd like one Iroquois/Algonquin coffee-table art book, if it exists. I'm looking for the specific game-related aspects. I got the gist of the history from the wiki. My two references for the period remain Spearman to Minuteman, by SE Ellacott, and Indian Crafts and Lore, by W Ben Hunt. So, something with pictures, preferably. :) Thanks, as always, for your kind expertise. Cheers. P.S. Anything from Beaver Wars era to pre-AWI works as FIW-era for my purposes. Maps, giant photos of native crafts or breathtaking locales, and detailed discussion of sources of native weapons always appreciated. |
skippy0001 | 14 Aug 2014 4:58 p.m. PST |
Osprey books? It would be a good start. |
45thdiv | 14 Aug 2014 5:11 p.m. PST |
Not many vehicles in FIW. Osprey books would be the first place to look for the rest. |
Loyalhanna | 14 Aug 2014 5:22 p.m. PST |
Hello grommet37, For the equipment, you may want to check out my Facebook page: Loyalhanna Outpost. I have some really good photos from Fort Ligonier in one of the albums. Also another real good source would be to Google: Griffing paintings, he has a lot of good prints with Natives, French, and British. At my website I also have some links to sites that might help. Click the link below. take care, Keith loyalhannaoutpost.com |
rustymusket | 14 Aug 2014 6:00 p.m. PST |
Osprey has a book Empires Collide which is a compilation of the smaller books. I got when I developed an interest in gaming FIW and it gave me much of what I wanted. |
Custer7thcav | 14 Aug 2014 6:03 p.m. PST |
I concur with rustymusket as to the usefulness of the tome he references. |
79thPA | 14 Aug 2014 7:32 p.m. PST |
You might like the "Sketchbook '56" series: link Don't expect any vehicles unless Battlefront does the F&IW. |
coopman | 14 Aug 2014 7:36 p.m. PST |
The biggest tank battle of the war was at Quebec. |
Prince Alberts Revenge | 14 Aug 2014 7:46 p.m. PST |
There is a ruleset/guidebook by the Canadian Wargames Group called Habitants and Highlanders (I believe). Awesome reference, as is the Osprey compilation. |
79thPA | 14 Aug 2014 7:51 p.m. PST |
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coopman | 14 Aug 2014 7:52 p.m. PST |
This is the book that got me started: link |
grommet37 | 14 Aug 2014 10:29 p.m. PST |
Thanks for the info, gamers. I made a list of the 17 or so relevant Osprey texts, I've posted it below. Loyalhanna: Your site is a great reference. Bookmarked! Prince Alberts Revenge: I'll check it out. Thanks. 79thPA: I have that first book on order with the library. I'll see if the can order some of the other ones. re: Vehicles: Sorry, I was referring to canoes, cavalry, caissons and cannon. :) The relevant Osprey titles I found: Osprey Tribes of the Iroquois Confederacy Osprey American Colonial Ranger Osprey Louis XV's Army #5 (is there a better one for NF?) Osprey American Woodland Indians Osprey Colonial American Troops #3 (Militias) Osprey North American Indian Tribes of the Great Lakes Osprey Indian Tribes of the New England Frontier Osprey Montcalm's Crushing Blow, Tomahawk & Musket Osprey Monogahela, Louisbourg, Fort Wm. Henry, Ticonderoga, Quebec, Wolfe's Army, FIW, SYW Osprey Forts of New France, French Forts in North America Osprey British Redcoat 1740 – 93, Highlander in the French-Indian War, Redcoat Officer 1740 – 1815 |
MajorB | 15 Aug 2014 2:17 a.m. PST |
re: Vehicles: Sorry, I was referring to canoes, cavalry, caissons and cannon. :) A birch bark canoe is a birch bark canoe … Cavalry are a vehicle? Well I suppose in the strictest sense of the term they are … |
oabee51 | 15 Aug 2014 2:51 a.m. PST |
Here is a collection of woodland Indian paintings by Griffing, plus a few photos of cannon at Forts Niagara and Ligonier. link |
Martin Rapier | 15 Aug 2014 5:10 a.m. PST |
Presumably they had a few carts to haul the regimental silverware around in? |
ColCampbell | 15 Aug 2014 7:05 a.m. PST |
Grommet, Almost all of the information in the various Osprey books you mentioned has been combined and reworked in Empires Collide as mentioned by several others earlier and linked by coopman. As far as cavalry, there really was none. The French had a very small mounted unit but they were mostly used as couriers and mounted scouts, not as battlefield cavalry. The FIW was mainly a PBI war. Jim PBI = poor, bloody infantry |
historygamer | 15 Aug 2014 7:06 a.m. PST |
Wagons were at a premium during the F&I, and even if you had those you had a hard time feeding the horses pulling them. In fact, you probably had to bring fodder for the horses in some of the wagons they were pulling. Kind of a catch 22 situation. Most of the armies were more confined to water transportation than by horse. |
Tom Molon | 15 Aug 2014 8:03 a.m. PST |
I agree with 79th PA: the sketch book series is extremely detailed, fully illustrated, and very useful for uniforms, equipment, weapons, etc. |
grommet37 | 15 Aug 2014 8:37 a.m. PST |
Respondents: Thanks for the informative replies. Duly noted. To the library! |
grommet37 | 15 Aug 2014 10:35 a.m. PST |
I probably should've mentioned, I have Empires Collide on hold at the public library already (plus about a dozen other books). I should have it in hand this weekend. Hopefully, my library can get me a couple of the other specific titles as well; I'd like to get in-depth info on the Iroquois and their rivals, the colonial irregulars, and irregular tactics like the raids. We have a nice Interlibrary Loan system. Cheers. P.S. A more thorough scan of my library's collection turned up a few more of the relevant Ospreys, eg British Redcoat, Colonial American Troops #3, Forts of New France, French Forts, and Redcoat Officer. On order. |
grommet37 | 15 Aug 2014 2:36 p.m. PST |
Empires Collide is Out of Stock at Osprey, awaiting reorder. I ordered all the Ospreys my library had in stock, plus the max amount allowed for interlibrary, plus half a dozen from Osprey. Now to find figures. |
abdul666lw | 16 Aug 2014 5:43 a.m. PST |
18th C. armies used a lot of pack horses and mules in Europe, maybe a few pack ponies cannot be ruled out? |
grommet37 | 16 Aug 2014 12:05 p.m. PST |
What would be the best Osprey book for the French troops of the period? There are several "Louis XV's troops" books, some colonial militia books, and a French AWI book. Not sure which to choose. |
grommet37 | 16 Aug 2014 12:08 p.m. PST |
abdul666lw said: 18th C. armies used a lot of pack horses and mules in Europe, maybe a few pack ponies cannot be ruled out? Interesting point. I'm trying to remember reading LotM. |
thehawk | 17 Aug 2014 9:06 a.m. PST |
youtube has dozens of videos – the war that made america is a good one the broken chain has a few scenes – this is AWI look for reenactment videos as well I would not buy books for skirmish gaming, most of the same info is on the web anyway use google web and image search |
grommet37 | 28 Aug 2014 9:51 a.m. PST |
thehawk advised: youtube has dozens of videos – the war that made america is a good one the broken chain has a few scenes – this is AWI look for reenactment videos as well I would not buy books for skirmish gaming, most of the same info is on the web anyway use google web and image search Thanks for the advice. Did a great image grab session yesterday afternoon. Need to upload them all to an archive. And research the sources. :) A bunch of the images were from re-enactors. Thanks for that tip as well. That sure brought back memories of seeing similar events as a kid. War That Made America is regularly recommended. I'll check out both of those, and see what they lead me to. I bought a few Ospreys, well, just because I enjoy their books. I tried to be pretty specific, just what I need, what the library didn't have, etc. I kept it tightly constrained to the subject, and I'm pretty happy with the (admittedly quite costly) result. I bought them from the publisher. ;) I got the Iroquois book, the Ranger book, the Highlander book, a French Forts one and the only applicable Raid one which has yet been released, or at least in stock. Osprey: MaA395, W85, W126, FORT75, RAID27 From a storytelling standpoint, the Iroquois (and their Algonquin neighbors), the Rangers (and their French colonial rivals, the Runners of the Woods), and the Highlanders (Scots-Canadian former Jacobite rebels) will be interesting to research as points of view on the war and its consequences, for the "winners" as well as the "losers". Since I'm doing very small encounters, I'm adding RPG campaign elements to the micro-skirmish tactics. Characters are, you guessed it, Iroquois, Huron, Ranger, Runner and Highlander. Starting from very minor border encounters, we'll see how they fare through the entirety of the campaign (and my budget). 8) Thanks again. Cheers. |
grommet37 | 28 Aug 2014 10:05 a.m. PST |
And now for a few of the many replies I missed: oabee51 wrote: Here is a collection of woodland Indian paintings by Griffing, plus a few photos of cannon at Forts Niagara and Ligonier.link
Loyalhanna said: Also another real good source would be to Google: Griffing paintings, he has a lot of good prints with Natives, French, and British. This Robert Griffing fellow is apparently brilliant. And here I thought I had "discovered" him yesterday, when you pointed him out to me two weeks ago. This is the sort of thing that makes one consider pinterest. Apparently I also enjoy the works of Victor Mays, Nat Youngblood, Randy Steele, Giuseppe Rava and others. Back… to the library! Thanks again. I'm about to fill up a flickr/photbucket account or three. Cheers. |
grommet37 | 28 Aug 2014 10:13 a.m. PST |
79thPA advised: You might like the "Sketchbook '56" series:link Tom Molon agreed: I agree with 79th PA: the sketch book series is extremely detailed, fully illustrated, and very useful for uniforms, equipment, weapons, etc. Gentlemen: I believe that during my image search yesterday, I found some very few examples from this series, and I must concur with your estimation of its value. Many thanks. I will seek out a copy. Regards, as always, for your kind advice. Cheers. |
grommet37 | 28 Aug 2014 10:35 a.m. PST |
MajorB wrote: A birch bark canoe is a birch bark canoe … Major: I believe it is due to my Upstate New York upbringing, and to my introduction to the joys of canoeing at a young age, but to me, the canoe of one of the finest contrivances created by humans. It is – again, to me personally – the altar upon which I build my spirituality, the place I return on Sunday mornings seeking communion with my creator. It was, for this project, my point of entry into the subject. It will, admittedly, have less to do with the outcome of the war than say, the cannon, or the wagon to haul the lead around in, or even the ships to bring the lead or the gold from France or England, but it's so tied in to my personal vision of the land and its inhabitants and their economy that it's the inevitable starting point for my own exploration of the conflict. According to the first book I read, the Iroquois didn't have access to the best trees for birch-bark canoes, and so their tradition is centered around the supposedly inferior elm-bark canoes, which was a force which drove them to trade with, and attempt to conquer, their neighbors, so as to gain access to a better material and technology. To me, at the scale I'm gaming the conflict, that's pertinent and potentially useful information for character and scenario development, at least in terms of background and motive. Now I just have to vet that information, and see if I can corroborate it. :) I'm sure I'll eventually get to cannon, mounted scouts and ammunition wagons, given a few years. Book report on the canoe book to eventually follow on my blog. Cheers. |
grommet37 | 28 Aug 2014 10:46 a.m. PST |
Loyalhanna, oabee, ColCampbell: I hope you will not mind if I have linked through to your glorious resources on my FIW blog, State of Empire. 28mmfiwskirmish.blogspot.com |
Loyalhanna | 28 Aug 2014 4:07 p.m. PST |
No problem at all Grommet. take care, Keith |
grommet37 | 31 Aug 2014 9:14 a.m. PST |
One additional Osprey book that I should've listed above: British Light Infantryman of the Seven Years' War : North America, 1757-63 |