"40K and Apocalypse" Topic

So with all the flying vehicles, battlements, and now Epic vehicles that have been scaled up to 40K have the newer sets of rules just merge 40K and Apocalypse into one game system. I am not interested and buying tons of supplements and new models just curious.

Looking at the website it looks like you still need to buy apocalypse and escalation. I think the only similarity to apocalypse in the current rules is the option to ignore the force organization chart.

Much as I liked the initial idea behind Apocalypse I think one of the problems with the few Apocalypse games that I have run is the lack of the force org chart. You end up with an even more broken game. If, and it is a big IF, I were to ever host an Apocalypse game again I would require adherence to the force organization or you can bring in a super heavy.

We play Apocalypse games a lot and there is _never_ a problem. Everyone has the power to destroy so it is a balance of power. The only 'rules' we use is to set a game to super heavies or not? This just really includes stuff like Titans, Baneblades, Stompas etc. When EVERYONE has nasty things everyone is on the same level. PLus… we always play objectives and only Troops can score and contest. This nerfs vehicles from being the sole models on the table for the most part. It also helps to play with good friends and we NEVER abuse/stretch the rules.

We play for everyone to have fun on both sides of the table. Period. We almost never allow unknowns to play in our Apocalypse games. We usually have at least 4 players a side and use 6000+ points per side. It works very well for us.

Don

The current version of Apoc still requires buying an extra book or two. I've got the original Apoc books, but 6th edition was the end for me, so I won't be buying another.

Kallman,
I like the idea of force org charts, but from the beginning, GW has been pretty clear that Apocalpyse is the chance to bring whatever you want, no-holds-barred. So much in fact, that for a number of years around here the term "Apocalypse style" was used to denote regular games of 40k without force org charts.

Also, Apocalypse still rewards you for bringing "Formations" which can often comprise lots of standard'ish troops or vehicles.

That said, I think Apocalypse is a silly idea because it takes a set of already-rules-heavy rules intended for 1-2 platoons per side and tries to stretch them out to a game of company to battalion size. Big games are fun, but I'd rather not play a game where an entire day's gaming might still not net a completed game.

If I were playing an Apoc-sized 40k game, I'd use the rules from Epic or Warpath 1.0. those are rulesets much better suited for that scope of game. One could conclude such a game in an afternoon or less and have plenty of time to argue about who brought the cheeziest units.

Oooopps Check that… I meant to say 6000+ points per person. Sorry.

Don

40K has been moving closer to Apocalypse with 6th and the new 7th edition. 6th edition, while still constrained by a FOC, introduced a new category called "Lords of War" which allows you to bring in Super Heavy Tanks and gigantic war machines previously playable only in Apocalypse, and that's not counting the bigger models GW's been introducing lately with the Tau XV104 Riptide Battlesuits, the Eldar Wraithknights and the Imperial Knights which fall under the standard FOC and have very penetrable armor.

With 7th edition you can now play "Unbound" games, which makes it seem even closer to Apocalypse. But the assumption is that such games should not even be attempted unless both sides have the forces to balance each other out. Otherwise, why bother playing when one side has a bunch of infantry and only few heavy weapons while the other side has nothing but tanks and big walkers that can stomp around with near impunity?

I am not interested and buying tons of supplements and new models

Thing is GW wants to sell you tons of overpriced supplements and models.

Which is why to get all of the rules for Orks you need to buy over $225 USD in supplements.

Right on Mithmee !!!!