"A Word From The Assistant Editors" Topic

Frothers did not "out" these girls the A N other site did.

I used a different name on the blog and TMP. Revealing our gender was not our choice. It was Frothers who did it. I feel like they've violated my privacy and I am wishing they will just leave us alone for God's sake.

"Still, all over now. And in the spirit of lifestyle tolerance I'd like to say I've got a Prince Albert and I'll be posting pics soon. But don't put them up on TMP because that would be an invasion of my privacy and you'll be for the DH."

Unless it's big enough to push toy soldiers around the table with it's irrelevant.

That is rather naive McGobbo. Who brought the two together? And who is so petty and juvenile as to think it mattered?

Really? It's naive of you to think otherwise. The main problem was down to Frothers being portrayed as villains AGAIN by people who had not got the moral decency to admit they were caught out. No, I am not talking about the Editors but Bill. If my account gets locked so be it on this front but how many have been locked over this issue for less?

You mean this whole thing was over this in this day and age? This is the 21st century right? Not the 16th when we still burned people for not attending church on Sunday. This is not an issue worth getting upset over.

Hell I guess my way to support Bill is to get a membership, since I cant say "The hell with all of you, I am off to Texas". Been to Texas already and got a wife out of it.

I don't see how, that cat was wayyyy out of the bag since they weren't hiding behind pseudonyms and used the same photos on their profiles.

This is roughly akin to saying that because you see someone walk into an abortion clinic, you have a right to review their medical records.

The main problem was down to Frothers being portrayed as villains AGAIN by people who had not got the moral decency to admit they were caught out.

Caught out? At what, precisely? Your answer to this will almost certainly clearly reveal the actual main problem.

Doug

KatieL, this isn't the place to debate that subject.

The main problem was down to Frothers being portrayed as villains AGAIN

But the members of Frothers who did the 'investigating' ARE the villains in this; they violated the privacy and personal lives of several folks just so they could attempt to embarrass someone else. There's no other justifiable rationale other than spite. Please don't tell me you think that's perfectly ethical and everyone should be ok with it; it's not, it's wrong and the person(s) who decided it was their business ought to be ashamed of themselves.

-Will

I'm pleased that the editors have cleared up any remaining confusion beyond possible mistake.

I understand why it has been difficult and taken time for them to come out into a potentially hostile environment.

Welcome and congratulations. I'm sure this will turn out well for you.

But you're happy for the original discrimination to stand?

My opinion of the Editors is in no way changed for me other then them having the courage to come to the decision to clear this up. Will this stop the attacks on Bill?. No. That has unfortunately been evidenced in this thread already.It is truly sad that those at Frothers who have a grudge against TMP in the first place were angry,hateful,spiteful and petty enough to go intentionally searching around for some damning evidence of some supposed wrongdoing(s)on Bill's part and to use it to try and damage his reputation and business even when it was none of theirs nor anyone else's business.Sad even more that some here would jump on it and do the same here and that some who had even been here for years felt that before this wasn't even over that they had to leave here with their grand pronouncements.Lets those who can move on do that and those who can't at least have the respect for their fellow members to not and try to move this site for miniatures and gamers away from it's purpose for being.

I will echo what the Christian minister said. Holding as a matter of principle that some particular behavior is wrong has no bearing on my willingness to associate with anyone behaving that way in any legal/moral/ethical endeavor.

And I hope we've heard the last of all of this.

Why would people feel the need to jump into a thread like this to voice that they "don't agree with the life choices" ?

I don't follow people around, injecting that I "don't agree with your life choice" every time someone says they went to church.

Did any of this nonsense have anything to do with the intent of this site?

NO? Good, let's move on.

I am in agreement with Jhajha! We are ladyboys, and there is nothing wrong with that. It is not about our gender, it's about being dedicated and determined for the improvement of our company. We are capable of doing our job. We are trying our best to contribute significantly to TMP.

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome and acceptance!

My comment regarding to this thread is that Frothers' intentions are acts of ill will. Indeed we are transpinays, but let me also stress that we're hardworking, intelligent and beautiful people.

Because people think it's OK Weasel. They're raised thinking it's OK to be rude as long as it's to certain groups of people. What's more of a question is why it's being allowed to stand -- when it wouldn't be about other groups.

To the assistant editors:

I'm sorry that you have been put into a position where you have had to "out" yourselves in a forum where your background is completely irrelevant to the job you do here.

I sincerely hope that this whole, sorry episode can now be put to rest and forgotten about, allowing you to get on with your work and lives in peace.

Tamsin, a UK sister

Katie – can you pop me an email at runequester@gmail.com, if you'd be so good ?

Welcome to wargaming, I hope you all enjoy the history and research as much as the rest of us do.

As for the editors, I couldn't care less about your sexual orientation if I actively tried. I trust you care as little about my sexuality as I do about yours. Have a good life, do your own thing, I hope all goes well for you.

My objections and questions have been and are about how Bill A. treated members during this controversy which *he* enabled.

Just because someone asks a question doesn't mean they are trying to burn down your house. Conflating attacks and questions into one bucket just makes enemies where there were none.

I agree completely with Mad McGobbo & Repiqueone.

Bill A. put up a huge sign that said, "DON'T LOOK BEHIND THIS DOOR" and then treated anyone who asked, "Dude, what's up with the door?" in a disrespectful manner.

*If* Bill felt he needed to address this, which he obviously chose to do, he should have done so completely:

• Yes, I run a website for Filipino transexuals.
• Yes, I have hired some of those who work there to work here.
• Why? Because they did work I valued there, I figured they'd do work I valued here too.
• There will not be any mixture of content from that blog to TMP.
• If anyone has a problem please contact me directly via e-mail or PM.
• If anyone has a question please post it here.
• If you have an objection to them, their lifestyle, their choices, etc… do not post it on TMP as I will remove the post and may ban your account depending on what is written.

At that point Bill A. could have claimed the high ground on any part of the issue he cared to. Instead he raised the profile of the controversy and then attacked people who raised questions.

A couple nights ago I read the blog that Bill owns that these girls write on. I find some of it pedestrian and some of it questionable but all my objections and questions have been regarding TMP and Bill's conduct on TMP in how he treats members. For that I was flamed, others were banned, some were called names.

Let me ask this: some number of TMP member accounts were locked because they asked questions or posted information or links which have now been disclosed in this thread – will they be unlocked and apologized to? Don't conflate this with "anyone who was locked for any reason."

Who brought the two together?

Lastly, putting two public pieces of information together is not an invasion of privacy. My license plate number is public, my property taxes are public, my address is public. If you look up my license plate number, obtain my address and then look up my property taxes you have not invaded my privacy.

Similarly, if I post my e-mail address on TMP and you visit the website of the domain and find my public blog, you have not invaded my privacy.

Oh, and my question about how the heck does TMP need 5-6 people to keep it running when it had been run by a single person and none of the listed tasks *appears from the outside* to be enough work for a single full-time person. Yeah that question stands.

Cause geeze, if you hire 5 people for your lawn service and when I ask, "how do you need 5 people for that you only mow two yards?" you reply with:
• One fills the mower with gas.
• One pulls the mower off the trailer and pushes it back up.
• Three are in training.

I'm gonna stare at you, blink, and go, yeah OK, so how is that 100 hours per week?

Please note I don't care if the lawn service workers are men, women, green, orange, Buddist, whatever…

And why am I curious? Because things that appear to make no sense make me curious… so I ask, and perhaps with answers they will begin to make sense.

Cheers,

The Bandit

KatieL +1

Give it a rest Bandit. Apart from you and your cronies, no one gives a damn. Writing in a "reasonable" tone and tacking "cheers" on the end doesn't make something any less mean spirited.

Very well put Bandit. Last week I closed my advertising account on TMP, not because of anything I had learned about the Assistant Editors or Bills connection with his blog, but because of the appalling way anyone daring to ask questions was treated, particularly Angel Barracks. Will there be any apology forthcoming, I very much doubt it.

morrigan,

Give it a rest Bandit. Apart from you and your cronies, no one gives a damn. Writing in a "reasonable" tone and tacking "cheers" on the end doesn't make something any less mean spirited.

I don't have cronies.

Writing in a reasonable tone is an indication that I am being sincerely reasonable.

"Cheers" is the signature I use on TMP, it is on the end of all my posts regardless of the topic or content.

None of what I said was mean spirited.

Cheers,

The Bandit

I have a important question.

AWI British uniforms..white or off white I can't seem to find which it should be.

sorry thought this was a miniature site

Well, I've given you my opinion Bandit. I'm not going to offer you proof, I'm not going to quote you in order to make my point. I've told you the way I see it, and I don't owe you anything other than that. That's the way some folks deal with what you're shoveling. Now I'll Ignore you.

I would hope that Bill, and any other employers on TMP, would have learned that when you hire someone for a job that is administrative and behind the scenes, it is wise to not announce them to the public and post pictures of them, along with a truncated bio, unless you are prepared to deal with the repercussions of their announcement. Once you have done that they are effectively publicly exposed and if they have legal, social, or media issues they will come up and must be responded to.

There was no known reason for anyone at TMP to ever be aware of anything, but that Bill had hired some editors, period. End of subject. That the last week of sturm und drang occurred is solely the result of the postings done on their arrival. TMI is a killer in business and in life. Some of the initial responses to those photos were also a study in male locker room attitudes quite apart from the later discoveries. There should be a lot of red, embarrassed, faces around here for many reasons.

Now, on to wargaming….

…Last week I closed my advertising account on TMP, not because of anything I had learned about the Assistant Editors or Bills connection with his blog, but because of the appalling way anyone daring to ask questions was treated, particularly Angel Barracks. Will there be any apology forthcoming, I very much doubt it.

People were trying to "out" the editors against their will. I prevented that to the best of my ability. That had nothing to do with people "daring to ask questions," it was about people invading someone else's privacy.

Regarding Angel Barracks: I simply criticized his decision to become a Frother and participate in the topic where my staff were attacked. I stand by that opinion.

I would hope that Bill, and any other employers on TMP, would have learned that when you hire someone for a job that is administrative and behind the scenes…

The job of editor is to be a public figure at a social media site. I have never considered it to be solely a "behind the scenes" job.

Bill,

People were trying to "out" the editors against their will. I prevented that to the best of my ability. That had nothing to do with people "daring to ask questions," it was about people invading someone else's privacy.

You also criticized, ridiculed and flamed a lot of posters who did not say anything remotely similar to 'outing' your four staff members. You banned or locked out some.

You did it to me and I never did anything of the kind.

Regarding Angel Barracks: I simply criticized his decision to become a Frother and participate in the topic where my staff were attacked. I stand by that opinion.

You said he had filth on him because he posted on the Frothers site asking if he correctly understood your position and theirs. He made a neutral statement there and you attacked him for it here.

Cheers,

The Bandit

Ah, I think I finally get it, you expect the Assistant Editors to be public figures on a social media site, but to do it in private

*If* Bill felt he needed to address this, which he obviously chose to do, he should have done so completely:

• Yes, I run a website for Filipino transexuals.

I am glad it was not revealed until we are ready and agreed to it. It was our choice not Bill's. He respected our decision.

Ah, I think I finally get it, you expect the Assistant Editors to be public figures on a social media site, but to do it in private

Lame, Maximum Bob. I think they can be staff members here, in a visible role, without people needing to invade their privacy.

You also criticized, ridiculed and flamed a lot of posters who did not say anything remotely similar to 'outing' your four staff members. You banned or locked out some.

You did it to me and I never did anything of the kind.

Most people think I was very patient with you, Bandit.

You said he had filth on him because he posted on the Frothers site asking if he correctly understood your position and theirs. He made a neutral statement there and you attacked him for it here.

He made a very public exit from TMP. I criticized him for choosing to hang out with people who had attacked my staff.

I have a feeling that some of the people here don't understand this whole internet business.

Not sure if that's an age thing or not, but when you post stuff on the internet, people will figure it out.

Anyone doing 45 seconds of internet searching could link me with far-left political postings.
If someone doesn't want to do business with me, due to that, that's their call.
I'd rather someone tell me to my face "I don't want to do business with a ing red" than buy my games under a false pretence.
Of course, most gamers don't care one way and just want cool gaming stuff because my personal beliefs don't play into the games one way or another.

But it's not realistic to expect the world to hide it on my behalf, even if I wanted to, and if someone had a concern that I was taking CPUSA funds to make my game or something (not sure wargaming is part of the great communist conspiracy) based on publicly available information, that's up to them.

I don't have any inherent "right" to prevent people from having an idea and looking at information I personally put on the internet for all to see. That's not the kind of society we live in.
Especially if there is a concern about conduct that people don't want to be associated with.

*****

When I make a post somewhere online, it's under my easily verifiable identity. If I wanted to do something I did not want linked to that, I'd set up a different internet persona.

*****

The initial concerns raised were about whether or not the editors were being exploited in any way. We should take their words that they are not, but that doesn't mean that looking into publicly available information was not acceptable.

I grew up witnessing domestic abuse of one of my parents first hand and I can't count the number of times I wished someone else would have acted on the information that was clear to all to see.

But no one did and it escalated to a point where bad things were about to happen.

What a in train wreck. If you had told years ago when I joined this site that it spiral into this I wouldn't have believed it. Get rid of the political and religious bs and keep your baggage to yourself. Whatever happened to the escapism of miniature games? Everybody gets enough of this in their everyday lives. Bill, you are your own worst enemy, way to it up.

I have to admit I never anticipated any of this when I signed up for the message boards all those years ago.

-Will

Cause geeze, if you hire 5 people for your lawn service and when I ask, "how do you need 5 people for that you only mow two yards?" you reply with:
• One fills the mower with gas.
• One pulls the mower off the trailer and pushes it back up.
• Three are in training.

I'm gonna stare at you, blink, and go, yeah OK, so how is that 100 hours per week?

Bandit….
I take it that you have never worked with Union employees????….
If you have, then you would have your answer…

For reference go check out why Hostess Twinkies went away for a while…..

That might help you answer your own question there…

Murphy – we're cool with the "no politics on TMP" part, right?

Writing in a reasonable tone is an indication that I am being sincerely reasonable.

As do those being passive-aggressive. As do those trying to defend the unreasonable. Tone is only one portion of the message. Content is the other, greater part.

Speaking of content, the nature of the discourse over on Frothers being what it is, including rampant gratuitous misogyny and use of profanity simply and self evidently for its own sake put me off long ago, and in equal measure gives quite the insight into the mindset of such that act out in such a manner as a matter of apparent Frother course.

The willingness of some Frothers to happily troll this site and its members as they have done so on this and previous occasions merely underscores the frankly neurotic dishonesty of some of their membership whom the Frothers site owners seem all too perfectly happy to enable in their bad behavior.

In their eagerness to get at Bill Armintrout, those individuals decided to try and essentially internet stalk the Assistant Editors here at TMP like a bunch of drunken, mean spirited fratboys, rather than exercise some maturity and sensitivity to just what sort of Hell those who are LGBT actually go through on a daily basis just trying to live their lives in peace.

No, it was far too important for the clown posse from Frothers to satisfy their need to try and bring Bill Armintrout down with a ginned up "scandal," rather than just try and go and enjoy their hobby, and to Hell with the other people that they used to do it, as after all, they're just another bunch of LGBT Asians as far as the Frother perpetrators of this affair are concerned if their banter on the "FU-UK" fora is any indicator in the matter, so they're fair game.

The pathos of the individual Frothers who spent so much time and energy on this affair is of frankly Biblical proportions.

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Blackwidowpilot for the win.

Editor Gwen,

I am glad it was not revealed until we are ready and agreed to it. It was our choice not Bill's. He respected our decision.

I take no issue with that, but then Bill A. shouldn't have elevated it by addressing it at all or by publicizing the group of you as he has.

As I said earlier, it was like putting a big sign up that said, "DON'T LOOK BEHIND THIS DOOR" that followed by the way he addressed the obvious and predictable questions that followed are what made this an issue.

Most people think I was very patient with you, Bandit.

Some people think you were, some people think you weren't. I don't believe either of us is in a place to know how most feel. What I do know is that you did it to many members, some who posted a lot, some who posted a little, some who were more critical, some who were less critical. In any event, you exhibited behavior that correlates to behavior you won't accept of others.

But as I and others have said, this was a problem of your creation. I don't have any objection to the people you hired and if I think of one, I'll be keeping it off TMP unless it pertains to their actions on TMP.

Murphy,

I take it that you have never worked with Union employees????….

Well, whatever one's stance on labor unions is, people make the kinda jokes you did and ask the kind of questions they do because of the stereotype of four guys watching the fifth guy dig a hole right? Guess that supports my point, when people are told the number of staff and the work to be done and the two things don't match up – it is natural to ask what is gone on.

Cheers,

The Bandit

"Revealing our gender was not our choice. It was Frothers who did it. I feel like they've violated my privacy and I am wishing they will just leave us alone for God's sake."

-- i REALLY don't like some of the things said and done there, but this is not really true. you posted your photo on the internet and said you are transgendered. that's a public statement. one i applaud. if more people were open about their lifestyles it helps everybody. but to do that, use exactly the same photo on tmp, but then say you have privacy on the matter is a strange statement, i have to say.

if more people were open about their lifestyles it helps everybody.

Ye stars and little comets! Being gay is not a mere "lifestyle choice!" Being gay is an *orientation* hardwired into the human DNA and biology as surely as being straight. Period.

Can we all please at least agree to accept the growing body of empirical evidence on the subject of human sexual orientation, and put to rest the canard that one's orientation is a "lifestyle choice" like trying to decide whether or not to be a vegan or a vegetarian, or whether to engage in regular exercise or not to keep one's blood pressure under control?

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Leland,

Being gay is not a mere "lifestyle choice!" Being gay is an *orientation* hardwired into the human DNA and biology as surely as being straight. Period.

How about we just don't debate it because Heinz Good Aryan said nothing in his post to degrade or deride anyone, nor did he state if it was a choice or not.

Some people have expressed they accept it, some have expressed they do not but will respect the individual. That seems like a nice moderate middle ground to live in.

… this is not really true. you posted your photo on the internet and said you are transgendered. that's a public statement. …to do that, use exactly the same photo on tmp, but then say you have privacy on the matter is a strange statement, i have to say.

That is very true and it led to several pages of argument just a couple days ago. This comes back to the statement others have made that blaming the Frothers for pointing at publicly available documents / websites and saying they were exposing private information is ridiculous, they might be good guys, they might be jerks, I don't know them so I can't say, but if Bill A. or the editors wanted it private then it was pretty counterproductive to put it on a blogspot blog and advertise it on Facebook and Google+…

Cheers,

The Bandit

Assistant Editors,
Making the statement that you did must have been difficult for you. I hope that you are pleasantly surprised at the positive response to it and will stick with TMP for as long as you need to.

For myself, your gender and/or sexuality are irrelevant. You are here to do a job and I am sure that you will do it to the best of your abilities.

Bill,
I do wonder what all the comments from you about lies being told by the Frothers were all about. Everyone who looked at the threads on Frothers knew that the assistant editors were transsexuals and that it was extremely likely that you were Monty, so where were the lies? You really did handle this very badly indeed; you probably owe an apology to Angel Barracks and one or two other people for what you said about them.

All,
I completely agree with those who are frustrated by the description of sexual orientation and/or gender orientation as lifestyle choices. They are quite clearly not as has been clearly demonstrated by scientific research and a number of analyses. If those are lifestyle choices, so are height, eye colour etc.

Jurgen

TMP link

Leland,
The editors aren't "gay", They are transexual women.
How about not waiting for " the growing body of empirical evidence on the subject of human sexual orientation " and just accepting them for who they are?
Science is great, but don't use it as an excuse as to how you feel.

The same goes for those who say they don't like "it" but will tolerate it because "it" is legal.
Does that mean that not too long ago they wouldn't have tolerated "it" because it wasn't legal?
These are not tolerant people, these are people who pretend to be decent because they don't want to be held to account for their real opinions.

BS crumple.
I am not "it".
I am glad my son is not "it" and that is because I want grand kids to dandle on my knees and spoil rotten.
Twenty years ago I would have been opposed to "it". But, society has evolved to the point that "it" is "tolerated" and I hope I have evolved too.
Am I a bad person to you if I am at the point where I simply don't care what people do?

Making this about the editors' sexuality or asking everyone at TMP to own up to some standard regarding acceptance sexual orientations is counterproductive.

Such things do not impact how the forums are run or how members are treated.

Therefore I think it is an unproductive road to go down that will cause much argument but does not offer much reward.

Cheers,

The Bandit