"1805 French Infantry with AB 18mm" Topic

Before making my first Napoleonics purchase, I'm hoping to get some informed suggestions to mull over for a while before jumping into this new period.

I'm using AB because they sell individual figures. I don't want extra figures. Also, AB seems to get the most favorable comments regarding detail. I'm tired of painting little blobs of metal that vaguely resemble human form.

So, which AB codes (18mm) do you use to build line and light infantry battalions for 1805 (Ulm to Austerlitz)?

I've never seen AB "in the flesh" so everything below is based on the photos at the Eureka USA and Eureka Australia websites.

These will be 36-figure battalions (6 figures x 6 stands) plus separate smaller stands when Voltigeurs
are deployed as skirmishers (2 figures x 3 stands).

Here is what I am considering for each Line (Ligne) battalion.

1 x AB-F04 Line Officer
1 x AB-F05 Line Drummer
1 x AB-F07 Line Eagle Bearer in Bicorne
21 x AB-F01 Fusilier in Bicorne with pom pom, Marching
6 x AB-F03 Grenadier in Bearskin, Marching
6 x ?????? Line Voltigeur in Bicorne with pom pom and epaulettes, Marching
6 x ?????? Line Voltigeur in Bicorne with pom pom and epaulettes, Skirmishing

I'm unsure about which AB codes to use for marching and skirmishing line Voltigeur.

AB-F16a (Voltigeur Skirmishing) are in bicorne with pom pom and epaulettes on the jacket. However, I can't find a product code for Voltigeurs Marching in bicorne with pom pom and epaulettes on the jacket.

Alternatively, I am wondering if AB-F01 (Line Fusilier, Bicorne) and AB-F08 (Line Infantry, Skirmishers) would work as Voltigeur. They are in bicorne with pom pom and NO epaulettes on the jacket. (I read somewhere that epaulettes for Voltigeur were not regulation. The only distinctive feature was supposed to be the yellow collar.)

Here is what I am considering for each Light (Legere) battalion.

1 x AB-F12 Light Officer
1 x AB-F13 Light Drummer
1 x AB-F15 Light Eagle Bearer
21 x AB-F09 Chasseur in Early Shako with pom pom, Marching
6 x AB-F11 Carabinier in Bearskin, Marching
6 x ?????? Light Voltigeur in Early Shako with plume and epaulettes, Marching
6 x ?????? Light Voltigeur in Early Shako with plume and epaulettes, Skirmishing

Again, I'm unsure about which AB codes to use for marching and skirmishing light Voltigeur.

AB-F16 (Light Infantry Skirmishers) seem to be Voltigeur figures in shako with plume and epaulettes on the jackets. However, I cannot find a product code for Light Infantry Voltigeurs Marching in shako with plume and epaulettes on the jackets.

Would AB-F10 (Carabiniers, Marching) in shako with plume and epaulettes work for Light Voltigeur Marching if painted with the appropriate colors? I'm guessing the Carabiniers may have grenade emblems that would need filed off before they could be used as Voltigeurs.

Finally, I'm wondering if the AB sapeur figures are suitable for 1805 battalions. AB-IF22 is in bearskin and AB-IF59 is in colpack. But are these figures intended for later periods after 1805?

Last question…where do you place the sapeurs -- with the grenadier/carabineer flank company or close to the eagle? I've read references that either is acceptable, but would like some other opinions to ponder.

Thanks for your help!

sorry to spoil your plans, but the French had 9 company Battalions in 1805. (One grenadier and 8 fusilier, later they converted one of the fusilier companys into a voltigeur company).
In 1808, they re-organised the battalions from 9 down to 6 (stronger) company's, although this took a little longer in Spain and Italy.

I don't collect 18mm Napoleonics, so I can't help there. But you might want to consider your organization.

I seem to recall that French line and light battalions had 9 companies in 1805. Compared to the 1808 36-figure battalion, they likely would have had 4 grenadiers; 7 "companies" of 5 fusiliers; and 6 voltigeurs. I am not sure when the voltigeurs became official. That would be 45 figures to the battalion.

I build my forces for the Peninsular War, and most in the 6-company configuration. I like to do 3 figures with short swords, and carve away the epaulettes to make 3 sergeants or corporals in the fusilier units.

However, as you are planning, I am doing 4 battalions -but in a "worn" state, with grenadier and 7 fusilier companies of 4 each, voltigeurs at 6. That makes 38-figures units. All are in my composite IInd corps division – 2nd leger; 15th line in white faced black; Paris Guard in green faced red; and 36th line – Victrix plastics. I also have 38 of the 33rd line, which never served in Spain – in white faced "violette."

Others on this site suggest that all French units were re-organized into 6-company battalions before entering Spain, so I am not necessarily correct.

I like some in dress uniform, some in field uniform, and may even add earlier Revolutionary period units to this "anthology" of the French, 1794? to 1815.

GdeP

@teper:
Actually, leaving off the Voltigeur companies entirely is an option, too. The reason they are included is my understanding that the conversion of one Fusilier/Chasseur company to Voltigeur started in September 1804.

As for 9 companies versus 6, the General de Brigade rules indicate 36 figure battalions (6 figs x 6 stands) and 30 figure battalions (5 figs x 6 stands). The 6 stands do not represent 6 companies. (I probably should have said which rules. Sorry about that.)

But this is a new period and there is a lot I don't know yet. Thanks!

Couldn't you used the line grenadiers as line voltigeurs?
Also, aren't light chasseur in the same uniform as the light voltigeurs (just another paintjob)

@GdP
Yes, it's also my understanding that line and light battalions had 9 companies in 1805. The basing I am using (6 x 6) is per my reading of the General de Brigade rules (Deluxe Ed).

Page 11 (Basing Close Order Infantry in Two Ranks) indicates each base can have 5 figures per base (under-strength battalions) or 6 figures per base (full-strength battalions).

Page 29 (2.11 France) has a table that lists 36 figures for pre-1808 battalions. Also, it lists 32 figures if either elite company is detached, but I'm not modeling any units with permanently detached companies.

The GdB rules do not seem to make any adjustment to the basing scheme to reflect 6-company versus 9-company organization. It's my understanding some players actually use 9 stands for the 9-company battalions, but I was sticking to what the rules say and decided to use 6 stands. Could be wrong about that decision.

(edited to fix typo)

@Duc
I am considering using the line grenadier in bicorne with plume as line voltiguer. But only marching and advancing poses are available -- no skirmishers.

AB-F02 (Line grenadier, marching) is in bicorn with plume and epaulettes.

AB-F02a (Line Grenadier, advancing) also is in bicorn with plume and epaulettes. I could use them on the skirmisher stands.

I like the bicorn with plumes for line Voltigeur. Just wish AB had a skirmishing pose in bicorn with plume.

Still, this is definitely an option to consider. Thanks.

As for using light chasseur as light voltigeur, it is my understanding the uniform is the same, except the voltigeur may have epaulettes but not the chasseur. I would prefer epaulettes on the voltigeur, but as the song says, you can't always get what you want.

OR,

In GdeB, as in most rules, the depiction of companies on separate bases doesn't impact gameplay, but it fair to say most Nap gamers like the idea of a base for each company, as do I.

So for your early imperial French Line/Legere, 9 x 4 bases is the way to go. The only difference in the AB French grenadiers and voltigeurs is the plate on the cartridge box – a grenade for the grenadiers and a horn for the voltigeurs. File these off and they are the same. Then you just paint the box with a white cover which is what was used on campaign.

On the legere, the legere chasseur has a shako, not bicorne, so they aren't interchangeable.

send me a note to baxterj at optusnet dot com dot au and I will send you through something useful to review all the AB codes.
John

@baxterj,
Thanks! I've been searching the Internet for information about how the AB codes can be used to create various units, but I haven't found anything. I'll send an email later tonite. Unfortunately, I'm not using my preferred PC at the moment, and the email client is not set up on this PC I am now using.

Yes, I like the suggestion that you (as well as teper1961 and Garde de Paris) made about using 9 bases per battalion. It's actually one of many different schemes that I "doodled" on my notepad a while back. I just could not reconcile this idea with the GdeB rules that indicate 6 bases per battation.

But now I get what all of you are trying to tell me. Since 6x6 and 9x4 have the same frontage, game play should not be affected. So, I can definitely reconsider the basing scheme.

(edited to include Garde de Paris)

Eureka Aus creates Lasalle packs which could suit your needs, Nic does not mind adding and subtracting to them from my experience.

The best bet would be to email Nic Robson. He is fantastic and can provide you with all the information you will need.

He trawls these forums as well but send him one through to be safe.

Nic is very flexible with his packs and is a wonderful fellow with great customer service. I am sure you will not be disappointed ordering from him. Great choice as the AB 18mm range is beautiful!

I look forward to seeing the troops painted up :)

@Xpress Mins & SiegeWS
Thanks for pointing me to the Lasalle packs. Very helpful. If I follow correctly, there seem to be two packs of figures suitable for 1805.

Line Infantry battalion (Conquest)
1 F17 Mounted officer bicorne
1 F05 Drummer, bicorne
1 F07 Eagle bearer
22 F01 Fusilier, bicorne
8 F02 Grenadier, bicorne
4 F08 Line infantry, bicorne, skirmishing

Légère battalion (Conquest)
1 F17 Mounted officer bicorne
1 F13 Drummer
1 F15 Eagle bearer
22 F09 Chasseur
8 F11 Grenadier, bearskin
4 F16 Lt. infantry skirmishing

Each battalion has 37 figures in Lasalle? Sorry, don't know Lasalle.

I see that fusilier and chasseur figures are used for skirmishers instead of voltigeur figures. Could be mistaken about that, so please someone correct my understanding if I'm not following here. I may follow suit and use fusilier and chasseur figures as skirmishers, too.

Good information. Keep it coming!

Voltigeurs were created for the line in the middle of the campaign, I am quite sure that they did neither have a yellow collar – nor epaulettes for a while – so for 1805 campaign, fusiliers would do as for Voltigeurs, uniforms, identical to fusiliers – just don't bother.

@vonW
Thanks. Yes, the line voltigeurs have been a bit difficult to figure out. The AB catalog does not list any line voltigeur figures, so I probably will have to use line fusilier figures instead, and the line fusilier figures do not have epaulettes. There is a light infantry voltigeur (F16a), but only in skirmishing pose -- no marching pose.

As for voltigeur collars, I have not found any specific references that say when the yellow collars were actually added to their uniforms. I did run across at least one reference that says the order creating the voltigeur companies was issued on Sept. 20, 1804. I was thinking there was sufficient time after this order was issued to outfit voltigeurs with yellow collars, but I can't find any hard evidence for that understanding. I'm inclined to paint the collars yellow for voltigeurs just because it seems so commonly accepted (and I have a lot of flat yellow paint just laying around). (I would insert a "smiley face" here if I could remember how…)

Ooh Rah, the AB are great but if you want a few units and are finding the AB to expensive then you could try Blue Moon. They have a great 1805 range of French…
link

Colin

@EB
Yes, Blue Moon as well as Fantassin (sp?) have some very nice 18mm figures in bicorne for the 1805 period. I also know about CGM, Eureka, and other 15-18mm ranges from my reading on TMP, the Deep Fried Happy Mice site (name?), and other websites. I am definitely interested in some of these other manufacturers for possible future purchases.

I believe only AB, Blue Moon, Fantassin have figures in bicorn for the 1805 period. I could be mistaken about that, so if there are other 15-18mm ranges in bicorne for 1805, I would enjoy researching them for possible future purchases.

For my first purchase, however, I am looking only at the AB range. With AB, I can start small and buy only specific figures in the exact quantities needed without buying extra figures. I want to try just a few battalions at first to make sure I enjoy painting Napoleonic figures before sinking a bunch of money into a lot of figures.

According to some memoires I read, for the line, the change happened when the units were already in Germany, I doubt they had any chance to change their red collars into yellow ones.

You will love to paint ABs and they will look excellent

@vonW
Yes, I'm looking forward to painting AB after reading so many positive comments here. My only concern is some comments that the bayonets are thin and tend to bend or break. I was considering GHQ 10mm. I already have a ton of 10mm for ACW (no Napoleonics). However, I believe GHQ covers only the 1815 period, not 1805. Also, the bayonets on my GHQ 10mm ACW do bend way too much for my taste. To be honest, another reason for choosing 18mm is my eyes just aren't what they once were. Painting 10mm is getting a bit difficult, unfortunately.

I was just re-reading the Osprey book on Austerlitz (Campaign #101). Page 19 says line battalions had 8 fusilier companies and 1 grenadier company, and light battalions had 7 chasseur companies, 1 carabinier company, and 1 voltigeur company.

There is also this on the same page (emphasis mine):

"Three weeks after the army commenced its march for the Rhine, Napoleon ordered a final change; each line battalion was to convert one of its fusilier companies to voltigeurs. The difficulty of implementing this on the march ensured that not all corps managed to effectively change their organisation before Austerlitz."

So, I won't be painting any figures as voltigeurs in my 1805 line battalions. Good to know! I do appreciate all of the comments that prompted me to dig into this a little deeper.

Ooh Rah, I have some of the Fantassin figures painted on my blog. Thanks to this thread I now know that I shouldn't have a company of Voltiguers in this battalion as I'm using it for even earlier at the Battle of Marengo. It's a shame as I was really happy with how the unit looked with the Voltiguers and Granadiers included.

Scroll down this post on my blog and you'll see how Fantassin/Warmodelling look. I know they're not to everyones taste but I like them a lot…
link

Colin

@EB (Colin)
You know, I really thought I had done my homework before posting, but as a result of what I've learned on this thread my original basing scheme and organization will need to be changed. That is not a complaint by any means, rather it is an admission of how weak my knowledge is and how much more research I need to do.

Part of the problem seems to be there is a lot of contradictory information in books and on the Internet. For example, just finding an OOB for Soult's IV Corp on Dec. 2, 1805, has been interesting to say the least. I finally settled on the OOB listed in the book 1805: Austerlitz by Robert Goetz published in 2005.

You have a nice blog! I like your Fantassin figures. I may get some eventually. For now, my plan is to start small with one line regiment and one light regiment, each with two battalions. The regiments will represent units in Soult's IV Corp, Saint-Hilaire's Division. Most likely, the units will be 10th Legere (Morand's Brigade) and 14th or 36th Ligne (Thiebault's Brigade).

For the light regiment – I would do Voltigeurs, in case I remember correctly they were introduced for the light infantry one year earlier than for the line.

@vonW,
That is what I'm planning for the light. I found this in Osprey's Napoleon's Light Infantry (MAA #146), pages 4-5:

"In March 1804 a company of voltigeurs (skirmishers) was added to each battalion, comprising three officers and 120 men per company with two buglers (cornets) equipped with hunting-horns replacing the drummers of the chasseur and carabinier companies. Thereafter, changes in regimental organization followed those of the Line infantry."

Everyone,
Thanks again for your advice. It really helped. I decided the line battalions will have fusilier and grenadier companies only -- no voltigeur. Of course, the light battalion will have chasseur, carabinier, and voltigeur companies.

Also, I'm changing the basing scheme to use one stand per company, so 9 stands per battalion. The number of figures for each battalion varies based on unit strength. Below is what I worked out so far based on a 1:20 ratio using the unit strengths in the book 1805: Austerlitz by Goetz.

I'll start with one light regiment (10th Legere) and one of the line battalions from 2nd brigade (14th or 36th Ligne). I may add some artillery…still mulling it over.

First Bde (Morand)
10th Legere (2 battalions) (1,488) (74 figures total, 37 for each battalion)

Second Bde (Thiebault)
14th Ligne (2 battalions) (2,051) (102 figures total, 51 for each battalion)

36th Ligne (2 battalions) (1,592) (79 figures total, 40 for 1st battalion, 39 for 2nd battalion)

Ooh Rah, good luck with this project. I'm sure you will really enjoy painting the AB figures, they are beautiful! Perhaps you should start a blog (if you don't have one already) so we can follow your progress with them.

I'm always surprised more people don't do the early Napoleonic period if they are painting French forces. The "glory years" have a real attraction to them.

Possibly, you might consider basing your "centre" companies on four bases of eight – just so it is easier to move them around the battlefield during a game.

@Littlearmies
Nope, no blog for me. It already takes up too much of my time on just Google and TMP. Maybe I'll get a Flicker account though.

As for basing, I am getting used to the idea of 9 company stands per battalion. At first, I was cool to the idea, but mostly that was my misunderstanding…I thought the GdB rules allowed only 6 stands per battalion. Now I'm thinking it might look pretty good on the game table. Hope so. Thanks again!

G'Day Gents

If I may add a few corrections to this:

It is quite understandable that there is confusion in regards to voltigeurs and the dates of their project / organization decree / and actual formation.

On the 22nd of December, 1803:

Napoleon sent a correspondence to the Ministre De La Guerre, to start working on a project to create in each light battalion a special Compagne de Tirailleurs.

They were to be called: Compagnie a Cheval, Compagnie d'Expedition, or Compagnie de Partisans, or any other name that was simular with their role. They were to train with the cavalry, and use the technique of "light mounting" on the horse, to be transported at the trot (which was instituted by other countries and in past ages), or follow rapidly on foot.

This manner of "quasi volitantes" is what would transform into voltigeurs. The military instrument for the voltigeurs was the cornet due to their combined role with the cavalry.

For the French this concept actually originated with l'ecole de l'ordre profound when the battalion in the reglement de 1776 was comprised of grenadiers, chasseurs, and fusiliers.

The concept was to have the chasseurs and grenadiers en tirailleurs, supported by grenadiers a cheval, and find the battalions in the first and second battle line in line or columns.

Napoleon announces the organization des companies de voltigeurs on 13 March 1804.

The height of the sous-officiers and soldats it was 4 pieds 11 pouces, and for officers it was over 5 pieds. This permitted an increase in the French army by 40,000 new recruits.

Roguet states this actually took effect for the light battalions on 23 May 1804.

General Vallongue on 21 August 1805 asks for information on the organization of grenadiers, fusiliers, voltigeurs, ect…

Napoleon issues a decree imperial on 24 September 1805 for the creation of voltigeurs for the line battalions.

Davout issues orders for their creation on 19 October 1805

Ney issues orders that the voltiguers are to be created on the field of battle, in accordance to the decree imperial on 24 September 1805, on 23 October 1805.

By November of 1805 we find that the voltigeurs of the line battalion are already being actively engaged, such as being employed en trialleurs for the regiments and battlions, detached on missions, and avant-postes with grenadiers en soutien.

With the creation of the compagnie voltigeur for line battalions, it released the light battalions of the responsibility of providing detachments of chasseurs to screen the line battalions.

It now permitted the light battalions to be employed in the advance guard, and cover the flanks of the corps d'armee, to be positioned anywhere that would be advantageous to a great body of troops.

If anyone is fighting the Battle of Austerlitz, then voltigeurs of the line battalions were employed.

Best Regards
Art

Corrections are always appreciated. It certainly has been a challenge researching how best to represent the voltigeur company in each line battalion for this 1805 project. I'm closer to a decision, but as more information becomes available, it's very likely I will change my mind again. I appreciate your information because it gives very specific details that I haven't read regarding when the order was given and when the order was actually implemented to add a voltiguer company. Good stuff!

I think it is fair to say that sources are divided about whether or not the voltigeur company was fully implemented into all line battalions at Austerlitz. For example, see my earlier post in this thread with the quoted text from the Osprey book on Austerlitz. Your information indicates the orders to create a voltigeur company were issued just a few months before the Austerlitz battle. It seems logical (to me) that some line battalions did have a voltigeur company, but some did not.

Additionally, even for battalions that did fully implement a voltigeur company, it seems logical that not all of them had enough time to add yellow collars to the jackets. See von Winterfeldt's earlier post regarding his reading of memoirs. Similarly, I would think these same time constraints would mean no yellow/green epaulettes on jackets either. However, it seems to me there would have been plenty of time to add yellow or yellow/green pompoms to the bicornes.

Another factor to consider is figure availability. AB does not make a voltigeur figure in the same uniform and bicorne for both the marching pose and the skirmishing pose. In order to achieve this look it will be necessary to use the AB fusilier figures as both fusiliers and voltigeurs.

I'm still hoping for suggestions regarding specific AB codes.

To represent the fusilier and voltigeur companies in marching pose, I am considering a mix of AB-F01 and AB-F01a (Line Fusilier in Bicorne, marching, with and without greatcoat roll). I've read that greatcoats were not issued to all French troops before Austerlitz, so that's the reason for this mix.

To represent the voltigeur company when deployed as skirmishers, I'm considering AB-F08 (Line Infantry, bicorne, skirmishing). However, this figure appears to have a greatcoat roll, so I may include some AB-F01c (Line Fusilier, firing and loading), which do not appear to have a greatcoat roll. Even if they do have a greatcoat roll, I think these figures will add some visual variety since F08 appears to have just two skirmishing poses.

The AB fusilier figures include a pompom on the bicorne, but no epaulettes on the jackets. For the fusilier figures used as voltigeur, I will paint the pompom yellow or yellow/green. I probably will not paint the collar yellow. I'm still dithering about the collar because it is so comonly accepted to paint yellow collars on voltigeurs.

Again…all is subject to change pending more information! But I think I'm getting closer. Thanks again for the detailed information.

Back to the original post – it was a matter of uniforms and not of tactics, as already said – and proven by eye witness accounts the order to convert a fusilier company into a voltigeur company reached the line regiments in the middle of the campaign. I am quite positive that there was no time to change the collars into yellow and to obtain epaulettes, till after the campaign in 1805.

About skirmishing as such, it was old age paractise (came up in the French Revolutionarx Wars) to form so called "eclaireur" ad hoch companies – or even battalions – who would do their skirmishing part – the order sanctioned more or less a practise well used for all old demi brigades of the French Revolution.

So – to sum up – my opinion – no special distinction for Voltigeurs in the 1805 campaign – employed as tirailleurs – yes of course.

It would be interesting to learn if the regiments just used their eclaireur units (made up of the most suitable soldiers for skrimishing) to form the official voltigeur companies.

G'Day Hans-Karl

I am not attempting to change the subject of the original thread, but if that has happened…then this is my last posting.

Yes the original post does indeed concern the purchase and type of figure to buy. I also agree with you that the compagnie de voltiguers would be attired in the same uniform as the fusiliers for 1805. Therefore a figure that is a fusilier would best represent the line voltigeurs in 1805.

Since it is also considered what figures will be represented as skirmishers, again fusiliers should represent them.

It has also been discussed the organization of the tactical sub-fractured unit of a battalion. Therefore even without a compagnie de volitgeur, a battalion ployed in column only, was able to detach fusiliers as skirmisher en peloton-compagnie (ou l'ordre binaire sur le troisieme rangs).

Consequently the player wanting to fight a battle prior to November of 1805 may detach approximately 30 to 60 fusiliers (1 to 3 figures) as skirmishers, or under an aggressive attack, up to 90 fusiliers.

But a player wanting to fight only Austerlitz does not need to worry about this issue since the correspondence and orders issued by Davout, Ney, and others make it quite clear that voltigeurs were formed and how a line battalion may deploy skirmishers en compagnie-division.

You are also correct the function of des decouvreurs / les eclaireurs became part of the tactiques des compagnies de voltigeurs…which I also mentioned in my previous posting.

Hans-Karl you shall notice that the role of eclaireurs prior to the formation of the line voltigeur, came from the compagnie de carabiniers, compagnie de chasseurs, and compagnie de grenadiers, unless a battalion in column desired a fractured fusilier peloton / de flanquer charges d'eclairer les flancs ou les ailes.

When these compagnies were detached with or without cavalry, "Les hommes les plus lestes et les plus adroits de l'infanterie legere, places dans les rangs sur les flancs et le front"…

UBI (useless bit of information):

"Les Enfants Perdus" ou la denomination de voltigeurs donnee aux companies signitiait-elle que les soldats qui les composaient pratiqueraient un tactique particuliere a la voltige a cheval.

493. — PROJET DE CRÉER DANS LES BATAILLONS D'INFANTERIE LÉGÈRE UNE COMPAGNIE SPÉCIALE DE TIRAILLEURS.

AU GÉNÉRAL BERTHIER MINISTRE DE LA GUERRE.

Paris, 30 frimairean XII (22 décembre 1803).

Je vous prie, Citoyen Ministre, de me proposer un projet d'arrêté rédigé d'après ces bases:

Il y aura dans chaque bataillon des régiments d'infanterie légère une compagnie appelée compagnie à cheval, ou compagnied'expédition, ou compagnie de partisans, ou tout autre nom analogue.

Cette compagnie sera toujours la troisième du bataillon, en comptant la compagnie de grenadiers pour la première. Elle sera composée d'hommes bien constitués, vigoureux, mais de la plus petite taille. Aucun sousofficier ni soldat ne pourra avoir plus de 4 pieds Il pouces; les officiers ne pourront pas avoir au delà de 5 pieds.

Elle sera armée de fusils plus légers que ceux des dragons, et sera exercée au tir. Les officiers et sousofficiers seront armés de carabines rayées. Les hommes de ces compagnies seront exercés à suivre la cavalerie au trot, en se tenant tantôt à la botte du cavalier et tantôt à la queue du cheval, à monter lestement et d'un saut en croupe du cavalier, de manière à pouvoir être ainsi rapidement transportés par la cavalerie.

Ces compagnies seront toujours complétées et entretenues sur le pied de guerre. Le nombre d'hommes d'ailleurs entrera dans le complet du régiment.

Ces principes une fois adoptés, il restera à former les compagnies. Tous les sous-officiers et soldais d'infanterie légère qui auraient moins de 4 pieds Il pouces y seraient admis, et il sera fait un appel de 6,000 hommes dans la conscription des années IX, X, XI et XII. Ces hommes seraient pris parmi ceux ayant été exemptés de la conscription par défaut de taille.

Faites-moi un projet sur ces bases.

BONAPARTE

@von Winterfeldt
On uniforms: Yes, I agree, it seems very unlikely there would have been enough time to change over to new collars and epaulettes for the voltigeurs before Austerlitz. Eyewitness accounts in memoirs is certainly convincing evidence. So, the AB Fusilier figures (without epaulettes) seem right for the voltigeur with red, not yellow, collars.

On tactics: This is getting a little away from the OP, which is to find out which AB figures to use. However, since tactics and formations have come up, here is what I am thinking for gaming purposes.

The voltigeur company stand (regardless of how the figures are painted) is positioned at the left of the Line battalion when in line formation.

V-Coy F7-Coy F6-Coy F5-Coy F4-Coy F3-Coy F2-Coy F1-Coy G-Coy

To indicate the voltigeur company is deployed as skirmishers, the V-Coy stand is removed. Stands with skirmishing figures are positioned to the front.

              V             V            V
F7-Coy F6-Coy F5-Coy F4-Coy F3-Coy F2-Coy F1-Coy G-Coy

@artpdn
I didn't see your post until after I posted mine (above).

@Valmy92
I didn't read your post because it says, "DELETED." I appreciate any help or advice that I should be considering.

Art you are as usually very well studied but still I come to a different conclusion about the eclaireurs :

La formation des compagnies de tirailleurs remonte à cette époque, chaque bataillon avait la sienne, composée d'hommes de choix et de bonne volonté : tous les officiers ambitionnèrent d'en faire partie, afin d'avoir plus d'occasions d'approcher l'ennemie et d'acquérir de l'honneur. Les tirailleurs ne cessèrent pas de compter dans l'effectif de leurs compagnies, et leur réunion n'avait bien qu'en présence de l'ennemi.
Souvenirs Militaires et Intimes du Général Vte de Pelleport, erster Band tome Premier, Paris 1857

This is about 1793 or 1794, those Tirailleurs were chosen men and not taken from carabiniers or grenadiers.

Here an officer who did command those tirailleurs even drawn together to form bigger than company units

CASSAGNE (Louis-Victorîu, baron), lieutenant-général, naquit le 5 juin 1774. Il entra au service en qualité de lieutenant dans une compagnie franche, le 1"février 1795, et devint capitaine de la 6° compagnie du 8' bataillon du département de la Haute-Garenne, le 25 mars suivant. Employé avec ce bataillon à Parmée des Pyrénées Orientales, il se distingua, le 4 avril de la même année , en défendant à la tête de sa compagnie le passage de la rivière de la Tela, au village de Corncilla. Il continua à servir à la même aimée, on 179.'; et 1795, et passa à celle d'Italie, en 1796. Commandant les éclaireurs de l'aile gauche du corps du général Masséna, il fut chargé de poursuivre les Autrichiens après leur défaite à Lonato, et fut blessé très-grièvement d'un coup de feu à ‘la poitrine, le 5 août, près du lac de Garda. A la tête de ces mêmes éclaireurs, il fit mettre ‘bas les armes à un corps de cavalerie ennemie, le 16 janvier 1797, près de Mantoue. Il
commença Attaque du camp autrichien à la bataille de Tarvis, le 25 mars suivant, et reçut dans cette affaire un_ coup de feu à la jambe gauche. Après avoir continué à servir à l'armée d'Italie et en Suisse, il fit partie de l'armée expéditionnaire dÏÉgypte, qui partit des ports de France, en
1798. Il eut le commandement des éclaireurs de la division du général Bon, et: combattit à leur tète aux batailles de Chebreyss et des Pyramides. Employé dans l'expéditi0n de Syrie , il servit au siége de St.-Jean-d'Acre. Chargé , le 29 mai 179g, d'attaquer un des ouvrages des assiégés, il fut obligé de combattre à outrance, et d'ég0rger les Turcs qui le défendaient. Il reçut dans cette action cinq coups de poi-

Also

Devant Aboukir, le 12 ihermidoran 7 (3o juillet 1799). Au général Bonaparte.
Mou général,
Bonne nouvelle, le général Davoust s'est conduit avec la plus grande distinction; a la tête de la vingt deuxième, un bataillon de la vingt-cinquième, de la dix-huitième et de trois compagnies d'éclaireurs, il a repris le village entier jusqu'au fort, une pièce de 8 et deux pièces de 16 qu'on vient d'enclouer. On a tué une grande quantité de Turcs dans les maisons : ils ne s'attendaient pas à une attaque aussi vigoureuse. Actuellement ils sont privés d'eau; j'ai ordonné sur-le champ de retrancher toute la tète du village, de manière à ce qu'il ne puisse plus être repris.
Nous n'avons eu que peu de blessés. Le chef de la vingt-deuxième l'a été légèrement à la tête : nous n'avons que six a sept morts.
Une pièce de 24 a forcé un vaisseau a fuir à toutes voiles, un aviso a été culbuté. Les canonniers se conduisent bien, nos bombardiers sont mauvais. Cette nuit, cinq pièces de 24 seront en batterie.
J'ai ordonné une distribution générale d'eau de vie , de munitions et d'un peu d'argent.
Abdallah-menou.

and

5045. — ARRÊTÉ.
Paris. 13 thermidor an VIII (1" août 1800).
ARTICLE 1"". — Les grenadiers et éclaireurs des 5", 6', 35°, 64° de ligne et 26' légère seront campés entre Beauvais et Amiens. Les compagnies de grenadiers et d'éclaireurs de chaque demi—brigade formeront un seul bataillon. .
ART. 2. — Ils seront commandés par le général Murat.
ART. 3. —— Il y aura à ce camp deux escadrons du 24e de chasseurs, deux escadrons du 5° de dragons, et douze pièces d'artillerie, dont six servies par l‘artillerie légère.
ART. _4. — Toutes les compagnies de grenadiers et éclaireurs passeront à Paris pour s‘habiller; elles n'en partiront qu'après avoir passé la revue du ministre de la guerre.
ART. 5. — Au 20 thermidor, le camp entre Beauvais et Amiens sera formé. Les troupes seront baraquées si le local est favorable, sinon elles seront campées.
ART. 6. —— Les troupes composant ce camp jouiront d'un supplé— ment de solde pour remplacer la viande. Il leur sera donné de l'eau de – vie toutes les fois qu'elles manœuvreront.
ART. "1. —- Il y aura deux généraux de brigade attachés au camp.

OK, think I am caught up now in the discussion. I even ran the French text through Google Translate.

artpdn said:

Consequently the player wanting to fight a battle prior to November of 1805 may detach approximately 30 to 60 fusiliers (1 to 3 figures) as skirmishers, or under an aggressive attack, up to 90 fusiliers.

But a player wanting to fight only Austerlitz does not need to worry about this issue since the correspondence and orders issued by Davout, Ney, and others make it quite clear that voltigeurs were formed and how a line battalion may deploy skirmishers en compagnie-division.

My original intent remains to build units from Soult's IV Corps, St.Hilaire's Division as they appeared at Austerlitz. I have a scenario for Pratzen Heights using General de Brigade rules for my first game.

If I enjoy painting and gaming this period, then I plan to use these same figures for earlier battles that occurred during the Ulm campaign, so roughly for the time period Oct-Dec 1805.

Admittedly, it may not be historically accurate to use the same figures for all battles in the Ulm-Austerlitz campaign, but that is what I'm planning. Otherwise, it just isn't practical for me.

Edited

OK, while I was writing my reply to artpdn, there is another post from von Winterfeldt, which I have now read. I have nothing else to add.

D'Day Hans-karl,

The military system from 1792 to 1793 was an period that followed no clear set of general principles, bar that is was an army of light infantry…with 1794 the start of solidifying their general principle.

Therefore the eclaireurs of late 93 and 94 had to use men avec de bonne voloner as tirailleurs in lieu of non-trained compagnie de carabiniers ou compagnie de grenadiers.

When Cassagne was a lieutenant dans une compagnie franche, this was a permanent tactical formation en compagnie-division, which was not from a line battalion en fractions.

Nevertheless the line battalions could at time sometime, collect up a few detached pelotons-compagnies, and create a similar tactical formation as the compagnie franche.

D'Italie, en 1796. Commandant les éclaireurs de l'aile gauche du corps du général Masséna – it is not a detached body from a line battalion en fractions.

En 1798, Cassagne, il eut le commandement des éclaireurs de la division du général Bon – not a detached body from a battalion en fractions.

le général Davoust s'est conduit avec la plus grande distinction; a la tête de la vingt deuxième, un bataillon de la vingt-cinquième, de la dix-huitième et de trois compagnies d'éclaireurs – three compagnie des chasseurs .
ARTICLE 1"". — Les grenadiers et éclaireurs des 5", 6', 35°, 64° de ligne et 26e legere

The grenadiers are from the 5e, 6e, 35e, et 65e and the eclaireurs are from the 26e legere, please look at 5044 as a better explanation.

Best Regards
Art

G'Day

Quite often the compagnie de grenadiers were detached because of a special duty / mission, detached to form with all other regimental or brigade grenadiers.

If I had to say how often…I would say more often than naught that they were detached. Therefore I would form a battalion in line in this manner:

……………V…………..V……….V…………….

F7-pel. F6-pel. F5-pel F4-pel. F3-pel. F2-pel. F1-pel.

When the battalion is in column formation:

V……V……V

F4-pel F1-pel
F5-pel F2-pel
F6-pel F3-pel
….F7-pel….

The 7e peloton is breaking the regle de d'endivisionnement des compagnies du centre. But it has no choice but to act as a complete 4th division, which according to the reglement was only permitted by grenadiers and voltigeurs.

Best Regards
Art

G'Day Gents

correction:

Paint me stupid…brain cramp…!

When the battalion is in column formation:

V……V……V

F4-pel F3-pel
F5-pel F2-pel
F6-pel F1-pel
….F7-pel….

The 7e peloton is breaking the regle de d'endivisionnement des compagnies du centre. But it has no choice but to act as a complete 4th division, which according to the reglement was only permitted by grenadiers and voltigeurs.

sorry…

Best Regards
Art

@artpdn
Thanks. I found diagrams for 6-company battalions at this site:

link

But I could not find similar diagrams for 9-company battalions.

@Art

"D'Italie, en 1796. Commandant les éclaireurs de l'aile gauche du corps du général Masséna – it is not a detached body from a line battalion en fractions.

En 1798, Cassagne, il eut le commandement des éclaireurs de la division du général Bon – not a detached body from a battalion en fractions."

I cannot see this from the supplied information, do you have additional sources which validate your opinion, for me it reads that those units were formed form the eclaireurs, and eclaireurs were formed from chosen men, all the time, at least up to the Egyptian campaign, see the memoires of Francois-