"On The Seven Seas Laser Cut Ships" Topic

Looks good!.

Main page
northstarfigures.com

Hope you enjoy!.

Amicalement
Armand

These are not on their webpage (at least I couldn't dinf them), I found an announcement tweet which states that these come out coming tuesday.

link

I fear ships are where the fad for laser cutting falls down – even the most graceful and elegant frigate is reduced to a mere barge when produced this way. On the other hand, North Star also have some lovely resin pirate ships – I think these are the ones Dixon made back in the day, but they're lovely whatever their origin:

link

These laser cut ships are quite lovely:
link

Oh those are rather more like it, but even they suffer from the material's limitations – you just can't do justice to the bow in particular – it needs compound curves.

I see your point, Dom, but after all such "ships" are simplified in several ways for wargames. I always think of them as 'suggestions of ships'rather than models of the real things.

The laser cut ones are hardy, cost less and are more useable for gaming.

Horses for courses – luckily there's plenty out there to cater for all of our tastes. :-) I'd happily buy a laser cut landing craft or barge, but not a frigate – definitely want a more graceful look there.

@ Dom

Fair enough.

@ Ceaser, Thanks for the kind words.
@ Dom, As the designer of the ships Ceaser linked to, I absolutely agree with your frustration about the limitations of the laser technology in its application to ship building. I started making the laser cut ships because the existing resin and foam ones had such limited deck space that boarding actions were not meeting my expectations. Since then it has been a constant design battle between beauty and playability. I think I have a acheived a resonable ballance – certainly better than some of the other laser offerings that settle for squared off lines and hulls that drop straight into the water.

With that said, I am always looking for ways to improve the kits. As a theoretical question, what would get you to buy our frigate model?

link

If it had a resin cast prow and figure head option would that push the kit over the tipping point? Are you looking for more decoration at the stern? Would mixing media (wood and resin) be a turn off?

On a related note, how important are the masts and yards? Do you want kits that include all that? or do you prefer a minamalist approach to everything above decks?

I look forward to everyones thoughts.

Regards,
Matt Green
Laser Dream Works

I don't agree with Dom (which is a first). I find them great.

" I think I have acheived a reasonable ballance" : I totally agree. Not easy to do but you did it.

"If it had a resin cast prow and figure head option would that push the kit over the tipping point?". not for me, I think they look ok as is. You could always sell them as optionals.

"how important are the masts and yards? Do you want kits that include all that?" DEFINETLY, this is where all the other manufacturers have, in my opinion, "missed the boat". I've looked at the pictures and let's be honest, without mast, yards AND minimal rigging the ships are loosing half theyr value. The rigging in the pictures do not hinder even boarding actions.

To be honest I wouldn't let my opinions alter your approach one bit – budget and the Atlantic mean I'm unlikely to put my money where my mouth is any time remotely soon, and you simply can't please everyone anyway – one person's unacceptable compromise is another person's essential simplification.

It looks to me like you have a pretty damned fine product that your customers like – going mixed media would risk alienating those who *do* spend money with you in the pursuit of those who *might* – better to keep doing what works.

Thanks Dom and BelgianRay, those observations are helpful.

Let me toss out another questions while we are at it. Using 28mm scale ships…

Do you see the ship models primary utility as "a piece of terrain" around which a skirmish action takes place.

Or do you see it as a "part of the army (or navy I suppose)" and is used as one of the main actors in the game?

I ask, because I am looking forward to our next few projects that involve both rules and figures. Understanding how folks are using thier ship models goes a long way in informing what might help folks game more often in what I think is an underserved genre.

Regards,
Matt

Matt, the ships are not bad looking. To answer your question I would look at them as definitely one of the main actors in the game.

I also concur with Dico Joe. MAIN ACTOR IN THE GAME. If you want them to be "a piece of terrain" you shouldn't bother. There are plenty (cheaper) solutions on the market for planting a boat (any type is available allready) the way you put vegetation on a terrain.
"an underserved genre" : quite right. Wich ships are there where you can use them for boarding as well have them looking good, butt I must insist that rigging, masts, yards etc as depicted in your pictures are a must. And allthough I also have to pay a lot to get it over the ocean, I prefer to pay more and get what I need than to pay less and not be happy.

To me, the ship is the focus and the crew are resources to be used to make the ship's abilities function, but I understand that not everyone is interested in playing this way.

So for those who prefer the "ship as a main actor", would you rather game in a smaller scale that 28mm? 15mm or 10mm? Or is painting 28mm and the drama of a big ship part of the attraction?

I know some feel it is too large but for me it is 28mm all the way. The presence of something like that on a table makes the experience much more enjoyable.

Still looking at 28mm ships to use with Muskets and Tomahawks. Thinking two small Brigantines for coastal raids or great lakes battles. They would definitely be worked in as main actors in our drama's.

I only have one Laser Dream Works ship (USS Wasp) at the moment. The HMS Cayane is my next one eventually. I use my Wasp as the objective for a Sharp Practice scenario I like to run. It's a cutting out action set in a small Spanish harbor town.

The ship is phenomenal .

The wooden Seven Seas ships are also available with masts and rigging direct from the manufacturer (Eleven Trees Design) on eBay UK:
auction

I game in 15mm, with figures based on US pennies (3/4 inch diameter) so I really need large open decks for more than a few figures.

I agree that the bows of the ships at the top of the thread do not look "right", however no matter what material one is modeling in compound curves and the tumblehome of a ship's hull are always difficult to do.

I like my ships for gaming to have at least a mast, a few spars, and some minimal rigging. Usually just the standing rigging at most. If you add in all the running rigging it can become to difficult to reach in to move models about the decks.

I certain amount of caricature is necessary for practical gaming minis rather scale ship models, but I don't want ships to look silly either.

If 15mm is considered 1:100 scale and 28mm to be 1:50 or 1:60 then something in the neighborhood of 1:75 scale might be good for me. Or to put it in ship modeler's scale 2.5mm or 1/10" scale. Unfortunately this is not a standard ship modeler's scale. I would recommend maybe using the closest "standard" ship modeler's scale to make borrowing fittings etc easier. Just my two bits.