"My Historycon 2014 report" Topic

Well, another Historycon in the books, I'm here at the Hampton decompressing from the load out and a weeks worth of work.

As I pointed out in another post, I took a new route here; anyone coming from the Northeast in the future, take a look at it, such a breeze.

Loaded in on Wednesday, a nice cool Summer day, had a great spot along the wall, thanks again Dudley and the set up went smoothly.

Show overall was spectacular for me; it was very good two years ago, I took a slight dip last year, but this year, I passed my 2012 number, which is outstanding, so thanks to everyone who bought something from me, I greatly appreciate it.

I also picked up the VMI cadets from Sash and Sabre and a nice ACW field with fencing around it from Battlefield Terrain Concepts.

Convention center AC was fine, food was fine, bathrooms were a bit messy. The gaming area seemed much quieter, the carpeting really seemed to help, didn't hear those bees buzzing overhead like the past couple of years. Got to the gaming area all three nights, some nice looking games being run, so thanks to all you game masters who stage and run such nice games.

Gaming area seemed very light Saturday night, but I had a great time Saturday night as well as Thursday and Friday hanging out in the gaming area, having some adult beverages and talking to customers and other dealers who I only get to see three times a year, which isn't enough to be honest.

Food outside of the center was good as usual, so many choices in the area.

Had a chance to get over to the flea market on Saturday for a quick tour, didn't have time to really shop as another dealer was watching my booth as I do these shows solo; it was mobbed, just mobbed, I'd guess 250 to 300 people and when I went back to the dealer hall, counted 37 people in there.

Would be nice if they ran a session at night so dealers like myself could get over there and buy some of the spectacular deals everyone goes on and on about that are had over there.

Overall, another great convention; sort of depressing as I left and the dealer hall was empty, both parking lots were empty and boom, the show is over, just like that.

I love going to all three of the HMGS conventions in the Spring, Summer and Fall, they are my three favorite shows of the 23 or so I attend, the social aspect is my favorite part of it, seeing old friends, meeting new ones, talking with people who are interested in the same hobby you are.

There is nothing like it; for those of you who do not attend, whether you're a dealer or a gamer, you are seriously missing the boat.

I heard we're back for next Summer, possibly two more years after that was the rumor I heard, which is fine by me, love the location, love everything about it.

In the end, these shows are what you make them, it's really up to you.

Thanks again everyone for your support, couldn't do it without you, it means a great deal to me as I run this as a full time business.

Can't wait for Fall In…………………

Thanks Double G for the thoughts
c

It's funny the shift in attendance over the years. I can remember when you couldn't find an empty table Saturday night. Now it seems people come earlier, don't stay as long. Could be many reasons, but you see that now across all three HMGS cons. The hobby has changed in many ways, and I guess will continue to do so.

Glad to hear you did well this year. Safe trip home. See you at FI.

Well back home safe and sound and glad I took an extra day off to rest up before heading back to work tomorrow. I had a great conventions! I won the PELA award for my Jungle Gods game on Thursday, had wonderful players for both sessions of the game I ran on Thursday and Friday, and my Tomorrow's War game on Saturday was a hit as well. Oh and I was interviewed by the local TV news about the convention. There was my five minutes of fame and I hope I did not come off as too much of a geek.

I did well at the flea market and that made it possible for me to go into the dealer's area and purchase most of things I had on my list.

It was great meeting some of the folks I know here on TMP in person or getting reacquainted. I hope all of you had a fantastic convention and made it safely home.

We could not have asked for better weather but that has nothing to do with anything the convention staff can control but it was a nice bonus.

Some thought attendance was down but that is a statement I hear every year and only the actual sale of badges can attest to what the real numbers were. Yes some folks may have paid then not shown up. However, it seemed to me that there was a lot of full tables in the gaming areas as well as well attended seminars and classes.

The carpet and cloth dividers helped immensely with noise and wear on the feet. The chairs were much better but as always there never seems to be enough of them as certain times of the day. Personally I do not think that is an issue of there are not enough it is more a dynamic of people grab and move the chairs to what ever gaming venue they are currently involved in and that is were they stay until the next group comes and takes those chairs. You just cannot control that.

Depending on the day and time many of the vendors in the dealer's area either were having a good show or were less than happy. Sunday seemed to be the busiest day. I will start a separate thread about the the dealer's hall and issues regarding the flea market.

Again, had a great convention and kudos to the staff, the hotel and convention staff, the gamers, and the kind people of the city of Fredericksburg. On that last point I was often stopped by locals and thanked for being here and helping the local economy. I am sure the Wegman's grocery store and the various restaurants did well with our being there.

whitemanticore, the Tomorrow's War scenario was excellent and the toys were topnotch. Thanks for running the game!

Robert

I was a judge while WMC was running his Jungle Game and awarded him the PELA. It was a great looking game and all of the players were having fun. It was not a historical battle but a good game is a good game, with all of the players engaged and tremendous visual impact. Thanks to all who attended the show and ran games. Congratulations WMC.

Scott….

Scott:

I know I am out of step at this point as HMGS has morphed slowling into something it was not originally intended to be, but your post awarding a non-historical game just kind of confirms that. :-(

Indeed, that Zombie convention Kevin spoke of can't be far away.

Might be time to simply drop that H.

Glad you all had fun though, regardless of the game. :-)

Scott thank you and HMGS for the award. When I ran the game later on Friday morning the players had just as good a time. I started each of my game sessions with this commentary, "The first rule of this game is to have fun. In regards the second rule please refer to the first rule."

And Robert, aka Goshawk, I am glad you enjoyed the Oberon Mining War game and the team of Bobs (there were three players on the Human side of my Tomorrow's War game named Robert) You and your team won the day for the embattled miner's rebellion against the faceless corporate robotic forces with the odds very much stacked against you.

@Historygamer,

Dear Sir, I am not surprised to see your comments as you have oft times taken a contrary stance regarding Historicon. Really it is time to move on. I am not sure of what Zombie convention you speak of but I am sure you will provide us with education. While my game was not historical per se(and what war game really is except in that we use models representative of the particular period)it was set in 1900 East German Africa with all of the plausible elements, German Kreigsmaries, Askaris, Hostile Natives of the time period and area, i.e., Ngoni and Watutu, a German Baron that was a big game hunter, (such persons did exist)along with his mercenary band of Rugga Rugga (again in period for the venue) and in the second game I added a couple of units of Slavers armed with muskets looking for opportunity which again are all plausible and common tropes for the era. Then I tossed in some non plausible units but within the scope of the drama with a character bearing a certain resemblance to Theodore Roosevelt searching for lost treasure and perhaps the chance to bag a rhino along with a troop of Spanish American soldier comrades and a Gatling gun mounted on the prow of a small boat to provide some firepower when things got interesting. There were local fauna aplenty with lions, rhinos, leopards, hippos, and crocodiles to thwart the unwary. Then there was that departure with the giant ape and the T-Rex but none of my players seemed to mind that and in fact one in particular did a stellar job of playing those elements for me so I could focus more on being the game master.

Now I am not sure that you attended the convention. I am going to hazard a pretty safe guess that you were not there. Well of course I was and along with running three games on different days I also participated in games and took time to walk about at various times to see what else was going on. Let me see, if you count the Flames of War tournaments and the Fireball Forward room there were a plethora of WW II era games. I saw Napoleonics, Crimean War, a fantastic late Medieval game, the wonderfull Irish Rellion game put on by the folks at Wargames Illustrated, there were modern era games, ancients, an excellent ACW game in 28 mm with scratch build Monitor and CSA Virgina, WW I, Age of Sail games, WW II naval, and more I am sure I missed.

Yes there were some so called "non-historical" games present. GASP! Call the miniatures police! Let me see there was an impressive Victorian Science Fiction game set on Mars and I cannot say enough great things about the the folks that put on that game. They deserved a PELA. Their game features a vast scope of well done scratch build flyers and other steam fiction models. Then there was the Search for Ameilia Earhart game that just looked like fun and was another well attended game. There was a Battle Star Galatica game that attracted a good bit of attention. Oh and there is always the Mech Warrior room which is always humming and everyone there seemed to be having a good time. Perhaps the highlight for some was the massive All Quiet on the Martian Front battle that had over thirty players. No one was sitting waiting for their turn as I have seen with some "Historical" games and the crowd was enthusiastic and included many a regular historical gamer I personally know among the players.

So the end is not nigh and Historicon is not in danger of becoming a Zombie con. A pedestrian guess on my part is that perhaps twenty percent of the games could be considered non-historical. I will not argue the point too much as I think we have room in the hobby to allow for that don't you?

Historygamer, Normally I would let a comment go by as I do not like to get into exchanges on the internet, and I do not want to hijack this original post, but you raise a fair point that I think is worth addressing in a civil manner (I hope). I have been a GM for years and try to run a game or 2 at each of the HMGS cons (historical, but maybe not actual battles). I also try to judge at least one time slot at each of the 3 main shows. This time I was given Thursday afternoon with another judge (also an experienced GM) whom I have worked with before. We picked about the middle of the time slot (3:15 PM) to judge to make sure we caught games in progress. Some games were just starting, others had finished (these may or may not have been picked in the AM slot) while a number were underway. At the time we walked around the number of games that were really active was about 20. Of those 20 games about 15 of them were either poor in presentation (limited terrain or with poor looking terrain), sponsored by a company (e.g. the beautiful battle of Aklow brought in by WI) or had players that were not engaged in the game (I asked a firend in one game how it was going and he said they were only on the 3rd turn in the 3rd hour). There is objective and subjective criteria that we use and historical games are ALWAYS given a preference. All things considered the Jungle Gods game was the best looking and most engaging game going on in the time slot. It was of a historical time setting, but had fictional elements which we weighed in our decision. We discussed 2 other games but the Jungle Game was better than the others (I personally was on the fence about a WWI game but it was just getting started and it is very hard to judge a game just starting). My main comment is this: the PELA award is to "Encourage Others" that covers both the GM and the players in the game to carry that forward and bring visually and engaging games to future shows. Too many historical games are being put on at the shows that are either thrown together without much thought or frankly poorly run by the GM (I had issues running my own French Foreign Legion Game on Friday, so I know the pain). I have no fear of a Zombie convention for HMGS, but I do see a lot more poor quality games on the tables the last few years (this may be the effect of the free admission for GM's) and a lot of bored gamers sitting at a lot of tables. There are a number of options out there to help a GM bring quality games to shows(and the Jungle Gods game was a quality game). Thanks for allowing me to respond.

Interesting….. I think Historygamer hit the nail on the head. There is nothing wrong with non historical game (I do happen to enjoy pulp fiction games), but maybe it is time to drop the "H" from HMGS.

As for the Zombies – well, there is a video on HCon 2014 and they are playing a Zombie game….

Our group counts the events in the guide each year on the drive back, and compares percentages of history to sci-FI/fantasy. Most years the number holds relatively steady and is surprising; many times we started the drive back saying, "man, what a bunch of fantasy/sci-FI events they had this year," only to count the actual number and find it was no more than the year before. I suspect the number of non-historical games is lower than many assume it is.

I think part of the problem is that some of the bigger and more visually stunning events are non-historical, so it gives a false impression that there are more of them than there are. Why that is I do not know--perhaps it is a desire to put on a good game, knowing they are not following the "historical" theme. Maybe it is that sci-FI and fantasy have higher standards (anyone who sees the better GW paint jobs can attest to this).

As long as the HMGS cons do not degenerate into tables of Magic the Gathering card games and Warmachine-style miniature skirmish games, I don't care. I would much rather play an exciting pulp game with terrain and voodoo zombies, or a full-scale recreation of the Battle for Hoth using Star Wars miniatures, than a lame home brew historical game with felt terrain and a GM who spends the entire time talking only to his home gaming club buddies.

I do agree that Saturday night has changed significantly over the years. There was a time where you were hard pressed to find an empty table to run a pick up game on Saturday night. Now it looks like 50% of the tables are empty. Don't know what the causes may be and not looking to place blame, just making an observation…..and am really glad there's space to run pick up games with friends I only see at the shows.

DM

While attendance may have been off there was plenty of room to move around. It never felt overly crowded or crushed. For me that's a positive.

The new chairs were infinitely better than last year.

DM

While attendance may have been off there was plenty of room to move around. It never felt overly crowded or crushed. For me that's a positive.

Isn't that like saying good thing we made less money – now we don't have to pay as much in taxes???

No

The information I got from the Con Director was that attendance was up. Significantly.

As for Saturday night's empty tables, this may be a result of the "graying-of-the-hobby" phenomenon. I for one, no longer a Spring Chicken at 63, was exhausted after my day-long labors at Wally's Basement, and turned in early. Assuming there are others in this situation, that may be why there were empty tables--the guys who in past years would have been playing were fast asleep.

Just a guess on my part, though. Uh oh, it's 7:25--where are my jammies?

Chris Johnson

I'd like to see the final numbers. I'm more concerned about how well the vendors did

For many years I kept track of how many games were played on each day of Historicon. In the early years Saturday was the big one, but after about 1995 the most desirable day to run your game was Friday. More games were played on Fridays than any other.

Sundays rarely garnered more than a dozen games. Two of those were Sunday staples for many years; the Flight of the Goeben in 1/1200 scale by David Emdee and Princess Ryan's Space Marines.

Maybe people just want to get a head start on traffic and leave Saturday evening because they live so far away, I don't know. I would be interested in hearing your theories.

That's why I'm interested in the numbers. Could it be that we're now seeing allot more Saturday day trippers?

I really enjoyed the con this year and its evident that both HMGS and the convention site have made a number of improvements to the venue. It showed, and with the nice weather it really made for a great event. Thanks to everyone who made this possible.

The only negative for me was the toilets, but I really don't know what more the site or HMGS can do. We really have some hygienically challenged oinkers at this con and I'm personally stumped as how to address that.

Nevertheless, well done and thanks for a super four days of gaming, friends and food.

PS: About a bazillion photos to follow :).

Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

Convention center AC was fine, ………

The weather was sooooo much nicer than last year! But then I'm a Canadian that complains more about summer than winter….go figure.

……..bathrooms were a bit messy.

That's putting it generously. Those that used to criticize the Host, pointed out the state of the bathrooms outside the Lampeter room. Well, for the second Historicon in a row, the bathrooms were way worse in the main room of the FCC. It ain't the venue, it's the users. Some people don't seem to be toilet trained.

The carpet and cloth dividers helped immensely with noise and wear on the feet. The chairs were much better……..

Totally agree, and nice to see HMGS and the FCC addressing some of last years complaints.

An observation: my friend played in the Bolt Action tournament on Saturday. He stood from 9:00 am until 6:00 pm in the uncarpeted tournament area. By Saturday night he was in quite a lot of pain. Why did the carpet end at the tournament tables?

…….HMGS has morphed slowling into something it was not originally intended to be, but your post awarding a non-historical game just kind of confirms that. :-(

Seriously? Is anyone really bothered by this? Hey, I co-GM'd a historical game on Saturday night that also won a PELA. (Thanks for the honor, by the way) . Maybe that'll alleviate your fears of ZombieCon.

I'd venture most of the ahistorical games are put on by historical gamers. Some of us have broad tastes in our miniature games.

Oh ya, there was a cool soccer game using 28mm figures. It was Holland vs Brazil with all the actual players in miniature. That's historical, as it only happened a few weeks ago.

The information I got from the Con Director was that attendance was up. Significantly.

My own subjective impression was that there were less people. I could be totally wrong. HMGS doesn't seem to publish the attendence numbers anymore.

As long as the HMGS cons do not degenerate into tables of Magic the Gathering card games……..

LOL!

I agree, many of the non-historical games do look better. But shouldn't HMGS be working to correct that? Instead, the painting classes often feature fantasy stuff to paint. The gaming area is full of non-historical games. One recent con had nearly 1/3 non-historical games. The organization is run by many people who have little interest in historical games or military history. Now game awards are being given to non-historical games. I am not surprise.

Look, I realize I am out of step with where HMGS is at today. It is not the HMGS I joined back in the 80s. I'm just agreeing with that, noting the changes and wishing you all happy gaming. :-)

PS – the attendance shift started a long time ago, at least in my experiences that go back to the late 80s. I doubt many day trippers at this con, at least at $25 USD a one day fee. I know it deterred me from attending this year as that is a lot of money, plus gas and food. That and the weekend traffic – which I can't avoid given where I live in relationship to the con. Funny, as it is closer to me now than ever before – at least mileage-wise.

Hope you all had fun, and glad Double GG made some double $$$. :-)

Bowman it was nice hanging out with you and wish I had not been so worn out after I had run my game Saturday. Otherwise I would have joined you in the Bolt Action game. I have to agree that as someone who is now 55 I just cannot keep the mojo going much past 10 pm. Even with the carpet having stood up all day to run games three days in a row my feet, back, and legs hurt. If not for the carpet I might not have lasted that long.

Historygamer exactly how should HMGS go about working to correct the appearance of games? Why should that even be a concern of theirs? All the figures for the painting classes were fantasy figures, again how does that impact the amount of "historical" games being run at the convention, and how do you know all of the painting classes used fantasy figures? I find your logic specious at best.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, State of New Jersey and the State of Delaware were well represented at Historicon 2014. We had a club table and ran events all weekend long. We shared the room with Old Dominion Gamers who ran Battle Tech, Zombies and some Historical games like Mein Panzer. We ran all Historical Games and the whole room was rocking because we ALL ran FUN games! (Nice Job everyone)

I am a member of Historical Miniatures Gamers Society. I was an Awards Judge and I agree with Rogues1. Not all the PELA awards were given out this convention because we were hard press to pick more than one quality game. I avoided awarding some Fantasy/Sci-Fi games, but some had great boards and people were having FUN. (Which is a criteria for the award)

To Double G- I answered your call posted right here on TMP and dropped some coin at your booth to support the cause!

To Chris- I agree I am getting old, but refuse to give in. I was up every day at 7 AM and gamed until 2 AM in our club room. Good God Its a Con, MAN!

To Don- there was no hiding that the Convention cleared out at night. Lots of day trippers and Shoppers or hopefully families. I can only guess.

I blame the Rogues for not running their traditional Saturday Mid-Night Massacre the last two years and that just S_CKS! (I would like to buy a vowel, Please?)

What makes a Convention is the people and friends that go. I missed a lot of my Northern friends that could not make the trip. I hope to see them at Fall-In but I am sure in exchange I will miss my Southern friends that will not be able to make the trip.

HMGS INC conventions are what WE make them. "Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"

The line of people I saw waiting to register on Saturday morning speaks to the number of day-trippers.

A few observations from a Historicon day tripper:

1. Arriving early helped. Traffic wasn't as bad and parking was less of an issue.
2. I understand the reason for it, but there has to be a better way to handle check-in. Maybe have nonmembers fill out a brief form while in line that is scanned into the system. Also if there is a group, why does each member have to register separately?
3. It is a good idea to study the program before going to the show. There are some great seminars, classes and games, but if you don't know what is going on when, you will miss out on much of it. BTW the program is also well put together-my compliments.
4. Games are set up for playing, but not so much for watching or learning the mechanics.
5. Like many day trippers I was primarily there to buy stuff. Most of the vendors were a pleasure to deal with, but there were some we just gave up on.
6. If you see something you like at the flea market, buy it right away.

Whitemanticore:

Forgive me, but I looked at your bio, which said, "… I played many of the old SPI and other Historical board games untill I came across Battle Tech in the '80s and then an introduction to Warhammer Fantasy Battle and 40K. The rest is history…"

So I think it best to say you and represent different aspects of the gaming hobby. And I'm certainly not suggesting HMGS should or could change at this point. Too late for that, I think. I suspect the growth in non- military, non-historical games represents a lot of things, too many to list in this discussion. :-)

Also, please read my posts more carefully as you are misrepresenting them. I said, "Instead, the painting classes often feature fantasy stuff to paint." The word often does not equate to all. Indeed, that would not be a true statement. And you are right, I don't think it is a concern of HMGS's any longer, though at one time it was. I simply remember back to those days, but as I said, I realize I am the one out of step with the current HMGS.

It is what it is, I'm just saying times have changed. My group used to bring 20 or more to the cons, run a number of games. Now…. :-(

Whitemanticore, nice to meet up in person and get to talk. Are you going to Fall-In, by chance?

Historygamer, with all due respect, you point out perceived problems, and when queried about them remain silent. To whit:

I agree, many of the non-historical games do look better. But shouldn't HMGS be working to correct that?

I'm at a loss at what HMGS can or should be doing about that. What are you suggesting?

You make some frankly indefensible statements:

The organization is run by many people who have little interest in historical games or military history.

Based on the election ballot bios of the current BOD members and my limited exposure to past convention directors, I'd say you are mistaken. Who do you have in mind?

I suspect the growth in non- military, non-historical games represents a lot of things, too many to list in this discussion. :-)

I suspect that it is simply that many miniature wargamers have broader interests than you. Nothing wrong with that either. There is room for all of us in this hobby.

My own bias is that I don't mind non-historical games played at HMGS cons, but I'd rather they not dominate. I believe there are rules already in place for this. Like I said before, I would suspect all the non-historical games are put on by historical gamers. I myself put on VSF and pulp games using my historical figures.

A challenge for you: At the next Con try to sign up for a GASLIGHT game run by the authors or the HAWKS. I bet you will really enjoy yourself.

My understanding is that there aren't any rules in place for excluding non-historical games, though the board has considered them in the past and might implement them in the future if the number rises too high.

As far as presentation goes, there's a certain inherent bias to fictional settings – they aren't limited by physics, history or reality. Its harder to put together a truly unique historical because of the simple fact that the vast majority of them have a similar look based on terrain and the architecture of the specific era.

Personally I see it as gaming first – it doens't matter to me as long as the game is good. Which honestly I tend to find pretty hit or miss at these cons. I find the split between certain factions unfathomable – maybe you prefer one to the other, but at the end of the day its still grown men playing games with toys.

If a decision is made to exclude everything save historicals then I will be a much less frequent attendee – its the variety that I find interesting. I happily fought Rommel, quested for the Orb of Power, defended Memphis against Martians, got into a dogfight with the RAF, and tried to retake Ceres station. I'd have played more hardcore history, but I bring my son, and while he likes all of them and has experienced several historicals in his 5+ cons now, he isn't ready for the more serious rules sets.

But some day he will be, and he'll have a positive association with historical minis games.

Quite frankly, this is NOT the hobby for the casual gamer. The investment in time and money is far too high. What you want are dedicated gamers, and HMGS can take the opportunity to showcase through their organizatoin and outreach the advantages of historical games over other genres.

Outreach that is not helped by the constant 'But I saw an Elf! What is the world coming to?'

As far as GG's comments I'm glad they had a productive con – I'm one of the ones that thinks that paying a bit more for access to the con to alleviate the prices on the vendors makes sense. If the difference between $25 USD and $40 USD is what keeps you from going, you probably aren't buying from vendors any way – and you certainly don't have enough discretionary income to participate actively in running games. No disrespect intended – I've been in that boat myself and may be again, but this is an expensive hobby.

I had a very enjoyable con, got some great deals for the game my kid wants to run – for kids by kids is going to be his tagline, of course daddy has to pay for it. LOL. Good to see some old friends, my wife actually played in a game (thanks Walt O'Hara!). The staff clearly listened to and got results for the suggestions offered here and in the yahoo group, which was fantastic to see.

A couple of the games I were in were well presented, but just bad games – one I think was objectively bad, few people enjoyed it, another was a pet peeve of mine. The amazing Martian game was an example of the occasional pitfalls of the con going experience – absolutely amazing presentation, and for that alone I enjoyed it. But the scenario was pretty bad IMO (though I understand opinions may vary there) – I really dislike the 'kill one random guy to win the game' concept, which was the way it was played. In other words, everything else doesn't matter. But again, that is a personal caveat, not one that everyone shares I'm certain.

Suggestions – IIRC it was Cold Wars that had a 'Kid friendly' game section in the catalog. That was awesome and I'd love to see that in all the HMGS events.

The onsite vendors were actually pretty good, and the surrounding food in the area was great as always. One thing though – in 2013 they had 1 food vendor open on Sun. It was a bit of a pickle with that changing this year – I had to look around a half an hour to find a vending machine for a drink, and it was mostly sold out. I certainly understand the vendors making decisions on profitabilty, but if there isn't going to be food one of the days a notice somewhere would be nice. Small quibble though.

Everything else I agreed with GG on – it was a really well con, and those two minor quibbles weren't a big deal, just small suggestions. Noise was greatly reduced, onsite food was a lot better than I expected (pulled pork platter was more than I could eat!), lots of happy people having a great time. I'd give the con a solid A, and I'm thrilled it will be in Fredricksburg at least one more year.

>I find the split between certain factions unfathomable – maybe you prefer one to the other, but at the end of the day its still grown men playing games with toys.

And therein rests the problem for some. Many of us don't view historical miniatures as just "grown men playing games with toys" and that is exactly why some trend towards disliking the expansion of fantasty/scifi games, if doing so presents the backdrop that "they are all just toys so who cares".

For me personally I am a historical gamer first, though I appreciate and have an interest in gritty pseudo-realistic scifi stuff. Even scifi gaming can provide insight into tactical fundamentals which in and of itself has value and excitement.

When involved with historical miniatures I feel the view gained about force structure, tactics, orders of battle, campaign history, specific units, uniforms, and period specific tactics is far deeper than just "grown men playing games with toys". In addition to being far deeper it's also exceedingly rewarding – learning and experiencing a slice of history while having a great time in the process. That's NOT the same as sitting around playing with toys.

The only negative for me was the toilets, but I really don't know what more the site or HMGS can do. We really have some hygienically challenged oinkers at this con and I'm personally stumped as how to address that

A large part of the problem with the toilets was the automated flush valves – when the seats left up, or the battery is on the way out, the flush doesn't always work. There is a little button to the side of the sensor, but to reach that you have to physically lower the seat…. and who wants to touch that thing! Replacing the automatic devices with manual flushes would go a long way to fixing the less than sanitary toilet rooms…..

Bowman, few people have ever suggested I ever remained silent about much of anything. Thanks. :-)

Not looking for a flame war. I have repeatedly said I am the one out of step with the current iteration of HMGS. I think a good discussion has ensued, with lots of points of view.

HMGS used to do a lot of things they no longer do, or have morphed into support fantasy/sci fi as much as historical miniature gaming. Too long a discussion for here, but a lot depends on how long you've been around and how involved/aware you are of HMGS and its conventions. You don't need a history lesson from me. I've watched things change since the late 80s.

I will say I don't think making awards to non-historical games will encourage future or better historidal games, do you? The entire Pour Encourager Autres was designed to do just that – encourage more outstandling looking historical games. You could make a case that it is not working. At this point, I don't think HMGS really cares, as the hobby, its membership and focus has changed over the years. In fact, I could suggest (with no facts, mind you) that some people truly into historical gaming have stopped attending HMGS cons – for a variety of reasons. The Old Guard who founded the organization on striclty historicals, is fading away before our eyes. I would also point out that clearly the inclusion of non-historical games hasn't helped in attendance either. A recent release of attendance numbers for the past several years showed flat (CW, FI), to falling (Hcon) attendance. Would it have been worse/better without the non-historical games? Who can say? Too many variables to account for.

As far as the people who run things, that goes a long way back too, and is not limited to just BOD members. Perhaps a side effect of trying to pump up the numbers to move to a bigger facility.

There are no rules in place for limiting non-historcal games as admited by numerous CDs and BOD members. Just look at a con recently where nearly 1/3 of the games were non-historical. I'm certaily not advocating such rules now. That horse is out of the barn, and doing so would do more harm than good at this point.

Hey, it is what it is. I still continue to wish the organization the best, and hope to make it to FI to run a military, historical game. Maybe two. :-)

jpipes:

Well said, sir. I would point out one difference between historical gamers and non-historical gamers – for every rule set on my shelf, I have at least 50 history books to back that up. Probably 50 more that I gave away or sold. My interest in military history is what drives my interest in gaming. For others, their interest in gaming (whatever) comes first. Not saying one is better than the other, just saying there is a difference to historical gamers.

By the way, love LOTR and many other sci fi and fantasy books and movies, so I'm not a complete knuckle-dragger. :-)

I enjoyed both the con and the venue. I must bow to my age and limit myself to two games a day, and that usually means no night games.

Two comments

One thing though – in 2013 they had 1 food vendor open on Sun

The catering operation is a separate company from the FEC and make their business decision on its merits.

All the miniatures at Hobby U are donated. The majority donated are fantasy figures so that's what gets painted.

@Kayjay – yes, I concur, which is why I mentioned they had the right to determine their own profitability. It wasn't that there was no one there – it was I wasn't aware that there was going to be no one there. :) Little things like that are little, but helpful, so if there's a situation that the Hcon staff might be aware of, it would be nice if it was communicated. If it wasn't communicated with the Hcon staff, maybe a further discussion with the vending company as what could be expected next year might be in order? Overall I'd say the food on site was a significant upgrade – just a small hiccup that cought me unaware the last day that I thought was worth commenting on.

@jpipes – I'm sorry, I still fail to see the difference, and have been an avid wargamer from the early days of Avalon Hill, history buff, table top role player with some success in RPGA, and mini wargamer. Wargames are all tactical/strategic excercies, and all fall under game theory. What I find odd is that one group who chooses to express that interest in one particular way finds their choice inherently superior. As with most things in life, you get out of it what you put in. I'd never disparage the pursuit of historical knowledge, and the fact that there is a teaching aspect to the historical wargames is a wonderful sidebar – my son certainly enjoys that aspect of it, and we often wander from table to table with me explaining the broad outlines of historical struggles and why the people involved were fighting.

I find imagination to be quite an important concept as well. A kid in the Historicon gaming hall might become enthralled and go off to have a career in the military and save lives or become a noted historian. And that's wonderful. But we are attracted to games because they are fun. I alway raise an eyebrow when I hear someone declare their version of fun is better than someone else's. The kid playing D&D or Tomorrow's War probably reads too – and he might end up being the next Heinlein or George R.R. Martin – or see the possibiity of the next killer tech and change the world. In a world of dynamism and change, imagination might be the most important skill one can develop.

Anyway, my 2 cents. I appreciate the organization and passion that the guys here bring, and due to the mission statement of the club itself for tax exemption I know that the focus will always be on history, and that's grand.

But people who don't see the value of embracing people who have go to have fun at the cons IMO hurts the experience. I know several people that stay away from Historicon because they were made to feel unwelcome because they liked scifi games, and that's extremely unfortunate. When I informed them that there were quite a few there they were quite frankly shocked – probably because they ran into the same attitude I so frequently see here.

It shouldn't have to be all or nothing, and I think quite a bit less of anyone that takes that point of view.

Does anyone know when and where the 2015 con is going to be?

"All the miniatures at Hobby U are donated. The majority donated are fantasy figures so that's what gets painted."

Considering all the money HMGS spends and makes ($30k on Hcon?), if it were serious in promoting military history, you'd think they would pony up a couple of hundred dollars to buy some historical figures. Thanks for helping make my point Kevin.

@AdamPH – it will be in Fredericksburg next year is my understanding.

The numbers of games were higher on Friday than Saturday. If you consider that the numbers of players per game will probably average out, there were probably more opportunities for players to play on Friday. It really was the big day -- at least it was the day we were the busiest at the Events Desk.

The long registration line on Saturday morning indicated a lot of day-trippers. We gave them copies of the program to peruse while in line, and I think that helped.

I ran a game Saturday night, trying to keep up the evening numbers. I had space for 8. All tickets were taken. I had five players actually show up, of which I know three didn't get tickets ahead of time. So -- where were those 6 people? Playing something else? Sleeping? ;-)

Yes, plans are to be back at Fredericksburg next year.

I think the answer is not to decry the number of sci-FI and fantasy games, but just to encourage more and better historical ones.

Several people mentioned painting classes--probably the painting of historical figures SHOULD be encouraged here, though if a kid wants to learn to paint by painting Frodo, we shouldn't stop him/her.

Thanks for your support 114th PA, I appreciate it.

And you nailed it about the cons; they are what we make them, end of story………….

Since the games are all run by unpaid or barely compensated game masters how do you force them to run more historical games? I play all genres but prefer WW II to anything else-- I ran two Fireball Forward Stalingrad scenarios and one Battlegroup Fall of the Reich game at Historicon this year. All were well attended or overflowing with players. My buddy Whitemanticore chose to run two Pulp games and one Tomorrow's War SF one. This was a big change for him as he normally runs mainly Ancients, WW II or ECW (regardless of how some mis-quote his bio).

The bottom line is GMs run what they want to run. If some arseclowns want to whine about too many non-historical games at a convention they didn't even attend then they should bring a historical game and bloody run it!! Ah, but they and their mythical 20 friends just can't be bothered and would rather stay home and bitch. THAT'S what's wrong with the state of HMGS nowadays, NOT the guys who do show up and run those oh-so-offensive Pulp, Fantasy, and SF games (which are packed with players having a great time, by the by)…

Having been an events manager and CD for enough years to have a valid point, I will say… part of what I did as event manager and CD is actually run the tally.. there is a script to do so to see how many of each genera is run…. looking back at Fall-In! particularly… without splitting hairs on if Gladiator arean combat games are "historical" or not… The amount of games rated as sci-fi, fantasy, pulp, etc….well… they don't come close to being in the majority.. more like the minority…. in the terms of say less than a quarter of all events combined. AND… this is NOT including the DBA or FoW stuff…. so in 300 game events, roughly 75… and that is an over estimation.

As for changing the name of the organization… I cannot ever see doing that, but maybe, someday… who knows… Gaming ove rthe years has evolved constantly…

My personal thoughts on th ematter… I am honestly shcoked miniature gaming isn't dead with all of the computer, X-box, Playstation, Cube, etc systems out there… for my part, I am just happy the hobby is stil lalive, regardless on what is being played.

Chew on that…. for me, D&D was the eventual gateway to Historical miniatures…

I know we must seem mythical to you, but we are all just ordinary guys – though we do have a couple of PELA awards in our group. :-)

Somehow I am betting I have run more games than many at HMGS cons over the years. Photos of some of my games were even used in the program booklets. Now, doesn't that make me feel special. :-)

Nothing stays the same, that is for sure. Happy gaming to all.

"All the miniatures at Hobby U are donated. The majority donated are fantasy figures so that's what gets painted."

Considering all the money HMGS spends and makes ($30k on Hcon?), if it were serious in promoting military history, you'd think they would pony up a couple of hundred dollars to buy some historical figures. Thanks for helping make my point Kevin.

Heather prefers to spend her budget on paint, lighting tools etc. And it avoids the politics of manufacturer, scale, periods etc. There were some very nice 40mm Vikings being painted when I stopped by, and 15mm WWII, pity you weren't there to see it.

I know we must seem mythical to you, but we are all just ordinary guys – though we do have a couple of PELA awards in our group. :-)

With all due respect, you seem to miss Nazrat's point….

He points to the irony in having 20 historical gamers (some PELA award winners) choose to stay at home and then gripe that there are not enough historical games at Historicon. That surely is ironic, don't you agree?

On the other hand, I'm glad you are bucking that trend and I look forward to seeing your game at Fall-In.

Well, I ran 3 historical games which were well attended but I was exhausted by Sat. night. The carpet and new chairs were greatly appreciated. The parking lot was crammed full if that's any indication of attendence. I don't care for non-historical games but always enjoy seeing a nice,well appointed game no matter what sort. Many historical figures get used for Mars and other places and that is good for sales. As a Southerner I feel obliged to support the con the best I can.