"Did Germans bother to paint captured guns?" Topic

Thinking of fielding one of the PSC Sov guns as a captured piece for my Germans. Obviously it would be priority to repaint a captured tank but would they bother so much with a field gun? Just debating whether to do it green (crew figures will be removeable so could insert Sov or German crew as required) or gray…

Even we Germans would not bother getting the paint out and immediately painting guns captured in battle and turned on their previous owners; however, they would be repainted once time and circumstances allowed.

Jurgen

If you are going to be issuing them to units, then yes. If you capture them in the field and turn them on their previous owners, you are not about to wait until the elite Artilleryrepaintingbattalion (free English translation) to show up with a fresh can of Dunkelgelb.

No I didn't imagine re painting them under fire … Can you imagine soldiers being issued with a painting field badge?

Captured field guns were supposed to be passed to divisional and higher depots, where they would be checked and repainted prior to being issued. Some would be sent away for recalibring to take German ammunition as part of the process.

Given the way that the Wehrmacht worked, I would not be surprised if there had been an Artillery Repainting Battalion attached to each korps.

Jurgen

Captured artillery was repainted if it formed part of a unit establishment, which most captured 45mm, 76.2mm, 122mm and 152mm weapons were.

If you are just talking about something pressed into action the moment is was captured, then no,of course not. (did this actually happen a lot? how many infantrymen know how to operate an enemy artillery piece?).

The tone of the OP implies the former not the latter though, particularly if it had been rechambered to take German ammo.

Martin,

There are quite a lot of accounts in combat reports of German soldiers using recently captured Soviet PAKs.

Jurgen

I have seen pictures of captured tanks that barely have the old markings blacked out, guns I would have doubt have anything done and would think time wouldn't allow that.

14Bore,

As several of us have posted, equipment would not be painted immediately or under combat conditions. However, captured material was supposed to be passed into a system which prepared it for re-use at either local or higher levels; as part of that process, it was repainted.

Jurgen

The pak36 was very closely related to the Sov M1937, so I would think it wouldn't be rocket science for troops of either side to use them?

The two series of 'VFW Pictorial History of WW2' and the US Army 'Pictorial History of World War Two' were used by me in One of my articles for 'Time Portal Passages magazine. I noted each photo of captured equipment shown as well as some photos of equipment captured by the German and then recaptured by the Americans. A number of the pieces had been repainted but not all of them.

Hi,

Tanks were repainted before put into action.
But Pak is very difficult to say. Are they handed over to the repair pool? Are they kept in the unit.

If you want to have a grey PaK… Paint it grey.
Greetings

The pak36 was very closely related to the Sov M1937, so I would think it wouldn't be rocket science for troops of either side to use them?

And the big Soviet 152mm 'mortar' was identical to the 15cm sIG33, so that really should be a no-brainer.

I have no doubt trained gun crews could operate enemy AT guns, mortars and artillery pieces, but an ordinary infantry platoon? The Soviets had dedicated captured weapon detachments to do this sort of thing.

Amusingly in the British Army the 6pdr was considered an infantry weapon so infantrymen were trained in its use and the manual appeared in the relevant Small Arms series.

Almost all captured equipment made it's way back to the rear echelon quite quickly, if for no other reason than to put it where ammunition and spares could be regularly sent to the new units to which the equipment was assigned. That way things like the ammunition considerations could be worked into the number of captured equipment establishments. Also, logistically, it would be much easier to have a battery of 76.2mm than several guns deposited individually all over the place. An example is the concentrated assignment of captured French equipment post 1940.

This being so, it would be a matter of how long enemy equipment was 'parked' in the rear before being re-assigned to a front line unit – there might not be time to paint it. The prime example is motor transport, which the Germans were always short of: If it was sent back at all, it barely got its old markings daubed out and new ones added before being sent into the line.

Hi,

according to the regulations all captured equipment had to be sent back or was salvaged by special units. These guns and other equipment were collected in special depots and sometimes also reworked in factories in Germany. Guns were as necessary furnished with german optics and german manuals. In addition for guns which were captured in large quantities firing tables were made following extensive testing at artillery firing ranges (I have one example for Italien guns). I think that repainting was within these procedures.

Despite this elaborate organization also many units reused captured equipment at the spot or after only minor reworks. A veteran told me that his Panzerdivision has 4 Russian SU100 in his inventory which they took with them to the west front. He got also a russian SMG from his weapons officer. These unofficial equipment was called "Schwarzbestand" (black inventory?). In a artillery magazine of these times ('Artillerie-Rundschau') I read from an artillery officer which was given a Russian captured gun with some munition but without any manuals. So he made some trial shots to get a very basic firing table. In a book I also read from a PAK unit with got a Russian PAK and made some trials with it to get used to it. This was very near behind the front line. So there was no repainting. But after they have used up the ammunition the gun was left behind or sent back.

Thanks team, helpful comments!

When does the Osprey Elite "Waffen SS Artilleryrepaintingbattalion on the Eastern Front" come out?

OFM

Malerarbeiten Artillerie-Bataillon

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