"Hamas Has Already Won Its Rocket War With Israel" Topic

"You wouldn't know it from the images of Israeli jets bombing Gaza. But for Hamas, the current war has produced a significant victory.

When the group seized control of Gaza in 2007, its primitive rockets had a range of no more than 25 miles. They couldn't hit Tel Aviv, Israel's financial capital, even though the city wasn't all that far away. In the last week, however, Hamas missiles have traveled more than 90 miles to the outskirts of Israel's northern city of Haifa. They've even landed near the home of Israel's nuclear program in Dimona, putting all of Israel's major cities in range of the group's weapons.

The attacks haven't exactly been deadly. Israel's rocket and missile defense systems have intercepted those rockets in danger of hitting population centers. Other Hamas rockets have landed in open fields. And Hamas still lacks technology to aim their missiles in a sophisticated way. In contrast, there are more than 200 Palestinians who have been killed in the fighting whereas the first Israeli was killed in the conflict on Tuesday…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Based on the fact IDF ground troops have gone in to Gaza I'd be hard pressed to agree that Hamas has won anything.

@Stosstruppen,
You've got that right!

They are legends in their own minds…….

Fools! The IDF have only mounted a ground assault to see if they can get a good look at the weapon that has defeated them. They are obviously thinking about stealing the 30-40 year old technology and using it to replace their home grown, but ineffective state-of-the-art weapon systems.

It helps when you don't mind getting your own people killed.

They opened the gates of hell alright….on themselves.

The next embargo on Gaza will be even more stringent based on the numbers of missiles they have been able to field.

And still, no one takes out the supplier/builder of all the rockets, e.g. Iran.

Seems to me they are far overdue for more than a little payback from the West.

Of course, we are partially responsible too now, since we continue to send money to the Palestinians. No doubt, some of that is paying for the construction and materials for rockets as well, but no one is reporting on that either, in the news.

One war at a time, Mako. And just how broad would like this like fracas? ALL the middle east? Turkey too? Ah heck, let's include Russia and Europe, while we're at it…. Clueless…

Hamas is fighting exactly the way I'd fight, in their shoes. Answering the question "who is winning" will take a long-term view.

"Of course, we are partially responsible too now, since we continue to send money to the Palestinians."

Trying to think of a way to respond to that that won't bring up the usual "is Israel America's friend or enemy" debate, but that's probably not possible. Suffice it to say that money sent to Israel is magnitudes greater than money sent to Palestine. But it doesn't get us anything, least of all influence.

Headaches. It gets us nothing but headaches. Lots of headaches.

I said this before, but will say it again …

I think it might be time for the US to finally cut the umbilical and see if Israel can finally make friends with its neighbors without relying on the US for fighting the battle it provokes and to flex diplomatic muscles on its behalf.

It's all a darn family feud anyway, going back thousands of years, between cousins who don't even want to admit are cousins. Actually more like two brothers from different mothers, with each brother calling the other one illegitimate.

Seriously, anyone else that gets in the middle of that family squabble is going to end up used and abused by both sides.

Dan

Cacique
It's hard to be friends with people who's stated goal is to eradicate your nation and your people.

Give up on the only island of democracy in the entire region that isn't home to muslim extemism – yup – I can see why that policy makes sense…

@CC: Gotta agree with Mongo on this one. As long as Hamas and their cousins blather about "the complete destruction of Israel," people there in Israel are going to remember Europe during the 1940s, and speak two words: "Never. Again."

You do not press the man who believes his children's lives are at stake if he takes so much as one step back. The only way he will yield is to Death itself, and there would be a fight Death itself would remember until the end of days.

I am honestly amazed that the Israelis haven't gone Roman on the troublemakers. To leave no stone standing upon another, to kill all the men, women, and children (can't sell them into slavery anymore), and to salt the fields such that nothing grows for the next 10 generations.

Lion: "You do not press the man who believes his children's lives are at stake if he takes so much as one step back. The only way he will yield is to Death itself"

Ever stopped and wondered if the same thought is in the mind of your neighbor, and his children? Maybe, in their mind, their situation is such that Death would feel like a welcome release.

Lion: "I am honestly amazed that the Israelis haven't gone Roman on the troublemakers. To leave no stone standing upon another, to kill all the men, women, and children (can't sell them into slavery anymore)"

That would be the wrong lesson to learn from the 3rd Reich. Don't pay that forward.

Dan
PS. By the way, every time I hear the word Hamas, the first thing that comes to mind is how similar it sounds to the Spanish word for "never" … Jamas.
etimologias.dechile.net/?jama.s

Anymore victories like this and there won't be any Palestinians left.

I think thats probably the israeli end game – history does love irony.

As long as HAMAS of who ever it is, fires rockets/missiles on Israel, hide among civilains to get world sympathy or support(?) etc., etc. … The IDF will have no choice … Going in on the ground, the IDF can be more "surgical" and destroy those rockets/missiles in the HAMAS inventory, tunnels, etc. … Maybe instead of the US stopping support of their best and most capable ally in the region, Israel … Iran and others should stop support to HAMAS. Also noted, last year the US gave over 440 million dollars to the Palistinians. Down from over 900 million in 2009. And other countries have given them much aid as well … And yet still it seems nothing changes. And it's been this way for as long as I can remember in my almost 6 decades of life … War and peace talks … repeat … repeat … etc. …

Nothing will change until the refugees get a right of return, which means the end of Israel as a Jewish state.Personally I think people should have equal rights and we shouldn't have ethnic states, though admittedly much of Israel doesn't agree with me.
If people from all over the world can return to Israel (as long as they're Jewish) why can't people who were born in Israel but aren't Jewish go back?

Until you can answer that you're defending a racist rogue state.Oh and if you're American you're also paying for the privilege.

Lion: "I am honestly amazed that the Israelis haven't gone Roman on the troublemakers. To leave no stone standing upon another, to kill all the men, women, and children (can't sell them into slavery anymore)"

That would be the wrong lesson to learn from the 3rd Reich. Don't pay that forward.

You're right, doing so would be a horrible thing to pay forward.

But Hamas is publicly dedicated to the utter destruction of Israel. It's impossible to negotiate with someone who wants nothing less than you and your entire extended family DEAD.

You say that there should be a two-state solution? Funny, there was a 2-state solution back in 1948. The other state is called Jordan.

Yes, I am an American and I know of the millions the US gives to Isreal much more than to the Palestinians … not to mention all the other countries that the US gives millions upon millions to. link And the US is not the only country to give aid around the world, of course. The US also gives to non-allies like Pakistan and even Russia. Generally I feel that $$$ would be better used here. But geo-politics is not black and white, very often …

Never Again. NEVER AGAIN.
atto6plus2 Do you live on planet Huh?

"Right" of Return is an intended non-starter, never mind that "refugee" status is not inherited and passed on from one generation to the next.

"never mind that "refugee" status is not inherited and passed on from one generation to the next."

ROFLMAO – exactly this idea of refugee return maintained the Jewish national identity for 2,000 years. And they want to deny it to the Palestinians. What an irony.

"You say that there should be a two-state solution? Funny, there was a 2-state solution back in 1948. The other state is called Jordan."

Funny how Israeli solutions always involve other people's countries.

"Funny how Israeli solutions always involve other people's countries."

Agreed. We all know how well the "Land for peace" ruse worked out.

So, how exactly was the UN-sponsored creation of Israel an 'Israeli solution'?

The Arabs/Palestinians that moved to Jordan all did so peacefully (for the most part).

Those who remained were the ones determined to fight.

How loony is Hamas? They're now being seen in Egypt as #thenameoftheenemyisHamas.

Egypt and Israel have a military 'hot pursuit' agreement, where Egyptian troops in hot pursuit of insurgents and/or smugglers can freely cross into Israel without getting shot up by the Israeli border guards and vice versa, with little to no notice needed for the border crossing (I think the Egyptian troops in the Sinai have the Israeli Border Patrol's radio frequencies and vice versa). I don't think there's a police hot pursuit agreement in the EU!

So, Hamas has demonstrated that they have rockets with the range necessary to hit Tel Aviv. Whoop-de-freaking-do, because they can't actually HIT Tel Aviv. Iron Dome seems to be working a lot better to stop the threatening incoming than the massive barrage of unguided rockets and mortars is doing in terms of damage.

Well it's clear after following any threads here about the ongoing/continuing Arab-Israeli conflicts. Many are very much polarized to either faction … So again, everybody is entitled to an opinion. And "truth" is, as always, in the eye of the beholder …

Until you can answer that you're defending a racist rogue state.

Were you not aware that the Jews and Arabs are all Semites?

Israel Accused Of Using Flechette Shells In It's War Against Hamas

"Palestinian human rights group accuses Israel military of using shells that spray out thousand of tiny and potentially lethal darts

The Israeli military is using flechette shells, which spray out thousands of tiny and potentially lethal metal darts, in its military operation in Gaza.

Six flechette shells were fired towards the village of Khuzaa, east of Khan Younis, on 17 July, according to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights. Nahla Khalil Najjar, 37, suffered injuries to her chest, it said. PCHR provided a picture of flechettes taken by a fieldworker last week…"

Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

The US used flechette rounds in Vietnam. Were very affective against massed infantry attacks. I don't know if the US still has those in their inventory …