"TSATF/Gaslight Compatability" Topic

Just getting into this period, and I've been playing with the GASLIGHT rules. TSATF gets lots of good reviews, and I might look at getting a set, but how does it compare with GASLIGHT for unit compatability ?

If I have units of 10/12 x 28 mm figures can they cross over easily ?

Does TSATF have any suggestions that allow VSF-type vehicles ?

GASLIGHT "normal" infantry units are 10 strong. TSATF are 20. Do the math.

One major difference is that TSATF is more into units, while GASLIGHT is concerned with personalities, even in the "normal" units.

There are plenty of web stuff out there for TSATF VSF stuff, but I do not play them. Someone will come along soon for that.

Although TSATF rules call for 20 figure units, many play with 10, myself included, and it works just fine.

What are you looking for from TSATF that you're not getting from GASLIGHT?

Like Flintloque mentioned what are you looking for with TSATF that GASLIGHT is not providing? I use Valor & Steel & Flesh as it has a bit more structure to my mind than GASLIGHT but also has some flexibility and has lots of ways to focus on Characters while still having units which are normally 9-10 figures, and of course its main thrust is Victorian Science Fiction.

As Ray mentioned many people took the idea from The Sword in Africa variant of TSATF and shrunk their 20 man figure units down to 8- 10 which works really well. And yes there is ample TSATF VSF variants out there but I am not certain of how well they work.

I can't recommend TSATF highly enough as a versatile, quick paced set of rules. Now, I only played GASLIGHT once, but was impressed by how well it played. Seems to me that it would be easily merged with TSATF. Your personalities could become officers/leaders of units in TSATF. However, doesn't GASLIGHT have rules for larger battles? Like Flintloque asks: What are you looking for from TSATF that you're not getting from GASLIGHT?

@whitemanticore: Great minds think alike!

It's not what I am looking for, so much as being new to the era and was interested in what one set offers over the other.

Well Guthroth I will hazard a guess and list a few things and tell us if I hit the mark or not:

1. You want to game the later 19th century era of colonialism with a dash of whimsy or perhaps an entire cup.

2. You want a rule system that will provide you the flexibility to allow for that whimsy but will give you the flavor of the period as well.

3. You want to know if you have enough figures in your collection in order to start playing these games. (Answer is yes but you are always going to want more.)

4. You like GASLIGHT but feel it perhaps is too open ended so you are looking for a bit more structure as you want to have something more than an adventure game you want a battle where heroes and villains can affect events but not necessarily win the game on their own.

5. You have heard/read about TSATF's ease of play and vastly adaptable system hence your interest in seeing if you can merge it with GASLIGHT or want to know what else is out there that meets your need even though you are not sure exactly what that is. (How am I doing?)

6.Steam tanks, Victorian Era flying ships, fighting Martians and or Moonmen is just plain cool.

7.You want a game system that will provide all of the above but be easy to learn and teach and will give you and your mates hours upon hours of fun and other good times.

That's about right. It started as a few figures to play IHMN but now I seem to have 50 or so red coated British, 30 natives, 25 German Askari (1889 vintage), a field gun, a steam armoured car and a VSF land ironclad. Someone else at my club is working on Zanzibaris. :)

IHMN lead to G.a.s.l.I.g.h.t. and I'm just curious about what appears to be an equally popular rule set.

For VSF, I don't think TSATF offers anything that GASLIGHT doesn't. All of the elements that makes VSF different than straight colonials are accounted for in GASLIGHT, and will have to be added to TSATF.

TSATF may have a bigger fanbase, and the base rules are cheaper, but that's the only advantage I can see to it.

I started out doing straight colonials (albeit in an Imagi-Nation) first using Soldier's Companion from GDW's Space 1889 range, then progressed to The Sword and The Flame as soon as I could get my hands on a copy. I also switched to 10 man units and it worked absolutely fine. Although I wasn't interested in the fantastic elements, I then gave GASLIGHT a try. Without vehicles it became a very slick and simple set of rules, perfect for pickup games at the local club with people who might not have played before. I also found it supported individual characters more, something TSATF really doesn't, which suited my preferred "adventure story" style of play. When 9/11 happened and playing West vs Islam toy soldiers lost its comic opera sheen, I knocked up some steam tanks and switched to all European VSF gaming using GASLIGHT, where I've remained off and on ever since.

TSATF is more structured and has some nice flavour elements, like the need to deal with wounded men. GASLIGHT doesn't differentiate between the nature of native and European troops, apart from the Shoot and Scuffle stats you assign them. It's designed to cover as wide a range of games as possible, which it does admirably, albeit at the cost of a little rules flavour. I've tried other VSF sets: Valor Steel & Flesh is good, but makes assumptions about vehicles that break the way I play. FUBAR VSF is also well worth trying, since it's free, but its activation mechanic is not for everyone and needs a little fine tuning IMNSHO. While it's not perfect, I keep coming back to GASLIGHT as the best basis for houseruling "my" perfect VSF ruleset.

If I was playing a straight semi-historical colonial game featuring Europeans vs native troops, with no fantastic or mechanical elements, I'd be seriously tempted to dust off TSATF. Once you bring vehicles into the mix, whether fantastical steam contraptions or real-world early 20th century gear, I don't see any advantage in using TSATF where they'd need houseruling. I'd use GASLIGHT or posssibly FUBAR VSF.

(Full Disclosure Disclaimer – In a previous life, I was the author of the GASLIGHT roleplaying supplement "Adventures and Expeditions", now included as part of the Compendium. However I'm no longer involved with the game or its authors, beyond being just another player of the game.)

Though the TSATF players are true fanboys, you already have a better set of rules in GASLIGHT. TSATF, while 'versatile' and popular over the years, is kind of like Swiss cheese, full of holes. I own both, I've played both. Neither is perfect (or even very close), but GASLIGHT, whether historical or whimsical, plays a better game. Just my opinion – and I have no involvement with the rules or the writers other than to be 'hacked' at by the fanboys and 'the daughter' when I speak so of TSATF. But I can take it.

Well, maybe all those holes in TSATF are what make it so "adaptable". Though, regardless of period, it always seems to play the same way. So, maybe not so much flavor to it. Saying that though, I also contend – and have done so elsewhere – what gives flavor is the figures and the terrain vastly more so than the rules. A move is a move, a role of a die is a role of die, etc. But the look of the thing is everything (for some of us). Otherwise stick with those little card chits, right?

Thank you all for the replies. Despite it being out of print and (IMO) the Compendium being badly laid out, I am going to stick with GASLIGHT for now.

I have managed to get hold of copies of the original GASLIGHT booklet and the A&E supplement – I just need a copy of the 'Battles' booklet.

I don't suppose anyone fancies selling me a set ? :-)

I know of a copy of Battles that I can get for you. e-mail me at vsfdotgameratyahoodotcom and we can talk. I'm in the USA.

I don't know about gaslight, but TSATF can be played with units of 10 to 20 figures. There isn't an established base size, and I have seen gamers use multiple figure stands. Many companies have started packaging their figures to help build units. It is more or less a skirmish type game with no real figure to real man ratio. Here in Florida its been generally accepted as the rules for colonial and other periods. I am demonstrating the Civil War variant in August. At our cons my friends and I run many games and their usually full.

Thanks cybrt54. Message sent