"Tigers at Bastogne" Topic

Hi all,

Were any Tiger Is used at Bastogne, or anywhere in the campaign?

If so which units please?

As I remember, Tiger IIs were part of Piper's forces. But they didn't fight at Bastogne. Otherwise I don't think any Tigers were used in the operation. I do remember that American forces reported facing Tigers all over that front. But folks in a very tight spot could perhaps be excused on that issue…
After all, if one is looking out a window and sees a German tank aiming it's main gun directly at them, would it really be time to take an analytic approach to the problem at hand?

Along those lines – One of the Band of Brother guys commented in his book about how the Tigers were tough to deal with. He said the Germans overran France with them in 1940.

There was one company of eight (8) Tigers assigned to the operations in the Bulge. I don't think they saw action at Bastogne. The rest of the heavy tanks used were Koenigstiger/Tiger IIs.

They were in schwere Panzerkompanie "Hummel", which was assigned as the 4th Company of schwere Panzer Abteilung 506. The 506 went into action with 47 Tiger IIs and 8 Tiger Is.

There were Tigers at Noville as per this game

Link link

Looks like in this scenario they use a Tiger

Link link

I interviewed a weapons platoon commander from the 1st ID, 26th Regt, 2nd Batt., who fought at Dom Butgenbach, in Dec. '44.

They were hit by 12th SS and he talked about 6 Tiger tanks attacking their lines. They were in fact JadgPanthers, but cut him some slack on recognition. It was a battle during a during a snow storm.

Many US troops called ANY German armor "Tiger" tanks.

Another veteran I interviewed who served with 104th Regt, opcon'd to 4th Arm talked about hunting a Panther tank with a bazooka team through a farm complex outside of Bastogne.

He was certain in was a Panther.

Yeah, contrary to what one might think, most GIs I have spoken to were not "tread heads." ;-)

Every tank is a Tiger, and every AT gun and artillery piece is an 88. These guys are not, and were not tank modelers, they were soldiers, and common folks, and when you are being overrun in the Bulge, I think you are allowed the misconception of every tank being a Tiger and every gun an 88.

Reading actual orders of battle, you find that Tigers are much, much rarer on the Western front than most GIs might have imagined.

Question, my experience with this phenomenon is with GIs only, did the same mislabeling happen with the British too? Just curious.

Thanks for the response guys, Esptachikoma, very detailed response!

Yes, pretty much – not so much wrt Tigers, but virtually every AT gun and artillery piece in British accounts was an '88'.

There was also a battalion of Jagdtigers assigned, but again, I don't think they actually saw any action.

The panzer units which bypassed Bastogne had lots and lots of Panthers though.

30 Corps "G" War Diary for July 44 (available under TNA piece number WO 171/336) includes the following remark, under the heading "Enemy Methods":

"In the sector just NW of CAEN an enemy Mk IV tk has been captured disguised as a Tiger with skirts of sheet metal. This practice has been reported before from the ITALIAN front."

Obviously the "skirts of sheet metal" referred to are Schürzen, and under combat conditions I think it would be very easy even for someone who was well up on tank recognition to mistake a PzIV with turret Schürzen for a Tiger.

All the best,

John.

The Tigers brought up the rear because they were too slow, and mechanically unreliable, for the required fast moving attack. When the Germans were forced back, the Tigers were mostly abandoned after being destroyed.

A good book on the Tiger's effectiveness, to include a discussion of their use in the Ardennes, is "Sledgehammers: Strengths and Flaws of Tiger Tank Battalions in World War II." link

Yes some Tiger I's were there a company was sent in, read it in a military library book that is not in general print. Also s few elephants turned up.

"Question, my experience with this phenomenon is with GIs only, did the same mislabeling happen with the British too? Just curious."

No, because all the Tiger battalions were fighting the British:)

More seriously, yes, Stugs identifed as Pz IIIs, Pz IVs as Tigers (one report which John Salt posted here recently complained that the Germans were disguising Mark IVs as Tigers with sheet steel around the turret!). And naturally all AT guns as 88s.

IIRC the only Tiger 1's at Bulge were controller tanks for Goliaths? No Elephants, they were all used up in Italy.

Yes, we've discussed Elepants at the Bulge before. Iirc the assertion they were there was made in one of Charles Whitings books. Possibly a misidentification of Jagdpanthers, as they were both heavy tank destroyers.