"Infantry Buglers" Topic

In the movie Gettysburg, they show the 20th Maine to have an infantry bugler who sounds the bugle before their bayonet charge. So I am guessing that at least Union infantry regiments had buglers as well as drummers?

Thank you for the continued help,

Terry

Yes, bugle calls are the easiest way to relay orders across a wide frontage.

I read it in one book (can't remember which now, may have been Killer Angels or Red Badge of Courage) that different regiments also added a unique regimental call to be played immediately before the order call, to prevent confusion.

Virtually all commands, including those for skirmishers, were relayed by bugles. Drummers rarely were in the line of battle. In most cases they were detailed to assist the assistant surgeon at is field aid station. Not so much as littler bearers, but to help organize the ambulatory wounded and assist with splints, bandaging, etc. But I digress.

The regiments drilled every day while in quarters, usually 3 hours in the morning and another 2-3 in the afternoon. They learned the bugle calls for everything in the drill manual.

Buglers were with the colonel, and one would be sent out with whichever company was detailed as skirmishers. He'd be with the Captain of that company.

The one pet peeve of mine is seeing all these drummers on command stands. If you want a musician in the unit, he ought to be a bugler. I know that drummers are fashionable and all that. It's your regiment, and you can certainly do as you see fit, but why put so much research into uniforms, flags, etc, and then have a drummer in a battle line?

Ah well. units on both sides, including artillery batteries maneuvered, changed formation, ployed and deployed by the bugle.

V/R

why put so much research into uniforms, flags, etc, and then have a drummer in a battle line?

It might help if figure manufacturers made a few more buglers!

In 25/28mm Sash and Saber do one figure in their command pack which also includes two drummers but Perrys, OG Second Edition and Redoubt don't do one at all!

Thinking about it the concept of a "Command Pack" is probably to blame all round – you get a drummer regardless of if you want it, or not, so most people stick them in the unit rather than build a Corps of Drums and by extra figures!

the drummer on the command stand is a myth that just won't die. i don't understand how its still here…

i guess its that 19th century look to a unit. Drums are used in marching units. I have even seen late WW1 German units still with a bugle Huw Stracken on WW1

Bugles were a feature of light infantry, and all ACW units used light infantry tactics.

In the movie Gettysburg (and, presumably the novel Killer Angels upon which it was based) it is mentioned that Dan Butterfield had a special few opening notes for all bugle calls in his brigade as a signal that the following call was meant for his brigade, and his only. He was the same guy who wrote the call "Taps" and later, as Hooker's chief of staff, devised the corps badges. He was a scion of the Butterfield Stage Line family.

To clarify a bit: The drummers, fifers and buglers were part of the Field Music of the regiment. This was an entirely different group from the regimental band. The band was just for entertainment and they were the ones who assisted the surgeon during battle. (Regimental bands had mostly disappeared by 1863, although brigade level bands persisted). The Field Music was used to transmit orders and played a vital role on the march and in combat.

It should be noted however, that not ALL orders had corresponding musical calls. Nearly all the movements by skirmishers had a bugle call and the basic movement and firing commands of the formed battalion did so as well. However, the more complicated formation changes could only be conveyed by the spoken word. For example, if I wanted to take my battlion in line of battle and have it form a column of companies with the first company at the front of the column, the order is: "Close column, by company, on the first company, right in front, Battalion, right face! March!"

There's no bugle call for that one :)

Gentlemen, my very sincere thank you for the great information. So I will be more accurate putting a bugler with Col Chamberlain than a drummer. And as you have pointed out, the bugler is a conversion since the pack only came with drummers.

I am assuming the bugler would have the same lace on his coat front as a drummer???

Again, my thanks!

Terry

Lace in the ACW?! No. After the first blush of recruitment you really would not see any fancy drummer & bugler uniforms. They would be clothed in Sack coats/Frock coats etc. _JUST LIKE_ the rest of the regiment. In all likely-hood the taping on a new drummer's uniform wore out in a few months, never to be seen again. All of this applies to buglers as well.

Sculptors love to add fancy taping all the time but it's only good if it was a newer regiment. There are many many photographs of both drummers and buglers with ordinary uniforms… run of the mill.

Don

OK my merry men, think on this one for a minute:

"34. The buglers will be drawn up in four ranks and posted twelve paces in rear of the file closers; the left opposite the center of the left center company."

Formation of a Regiment in Order of Battle, or in line.

Posts of Field Music and Band

Article First, US 1863 Regulations

So no bugles in the front rank of your units either, it seems!

For what its worth, there were 25 General Calls and a further 23 for Skirmishers.

Though presumably the latter were not made from "twelve paces in rear of the file closers; the left opposite the center of the left center company"! :o)

OK my merry men, think on this one for a minute:

"34. The buglers will be drawn up in four ranks and posted twelve paces in rear of the file closers; the left opposite the center of the left center company."

Formation of a Regiment in Order of Battle, or in line.

Posts of Field Music and Band

Article First, US 1863 Regulations

So no bugles in the front rank of your units either, it seems!

For what its worth, there were 25 General Calls and a further 23 for Skirmishers.

Though presumably not from "twelve paces in rear of the file closers; the left opposite the center of the left center company"! :o)

Don! Stop repeating everything I say! :o)

Don is correct that the 'birdcage' wouldn't be seen much in the field. Here is a link to a photo of the drummers of the 61st NY Infantry taken in 1863. Note that while the drummers are all wearing frock coats, none of them have the birdcage.

link

I didn't post that!

"34. The buglers will be drawn up in four ranks and posted twelve paces in rear of the file closers; the left opposite the center of the left center company."

Thus putting a lie to the concept of a command stand consisting of one or two flags, an officer and a musician. Having a bugler next to the commander of the regiment is quite correct, but those guys were not attached to the color party.

I am done with my pedantry for today.

I suppose if you wanted to do the figures correctly, you would just have the standard bearer be the last figure on the left of the right-middle stand of the regiment (representing the color guard). And then have a seperate stand with the commander and a few musicians that would be placed behind the center of the regiment.

I am curious John about how many figures you have in a unit. Given that some ACW units took the field with under 200 men, the entire unit command structure might be represented by one or two figures. How do you divide that up so that ensigns, officers, musicians and NCOs are all in their proper positions?

(Not trying to pick a fight on this. It just seems that unless you were doing dioramas or using very large wargame units the historical practice might not be workable.)

I didn't post that!

Don,

I know, just fooling, must have been one of the many TMP bugs!

Interestingly its timed at 6 minutes after mine but came up instantaneously at my end!

It just seems that unless you were doing dioramas or using very large wargame units the historical practice might not be workable.

I don't thing there's any "seems" about it! ;o)

I'm thinking out loud here but given that there were supposed to be two buglers per company that's four ranks of five, that's a lot of tooting!

It has to be one of those, rarely, if ever, attainments doesn't it? I mean given the actual strengths of Regiments no one could afford to have twenty guys, plus the drummers, at the back.

Surely most were on the firing line with a Bugle hanging round their necks but with one guy each next to the Colonel, Lt Colonel and Major to relay commands.

Seems to me that unles you're donig 1 figure represents one man the command stands are just representations of the the unit, so placement of officers, drummers, buglers, is not all that important.

A suggestion for all the drummers languishing in our collections: Order Markers. There is a rule set in the works that keeps track of the number of orders issued. I am planning on using drummer figures behind the lines to indicate that.

the drummer on the command stand is a myth that just won't die. i don't understand how its still here…

As Scott says, it isn't that there weren't drummers and it isn't that there weren't drummers with the regimental commander during battle, it is just that their physical position compared to the firing line doesn't work well for wargaming.

Why do people think drummers were present? Well, it isn't terribly hard to find accounts of guys shooting at drummers so they were obviously present during battle and not sent off to the rear.

Cheers,

The Bandit

Bandit,

Are you saying you have read about soldiers ACTUALLY shooting at drummer boys? I have NEVER heard nor read of that. Where have you read this? I'd love to look them up.

There are many stories of them being hit and killed but these were from over shots and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

For anyone who is interested, here is the diagram from Casey's Tactics showing a 10 company regiment drawn up in line of battle. It also shows how a single company would be formed up in line of battle as well. One thing, it shows the two skirmish companies drawn up behind the main line. This provision was suspended and all 10 companies would have been in the main line.

The field music (the company fifes and drums) would be combined in to one group and they are at point X on the diagram.

Nice image, Keith, thanks for posting.

As an aside, didn't feel this required a whole be thread, but would buglers typically be carrying a rifle, or did they go without? Just asking as a lot of figures show them with a rifle slung over their left shoulder..

Thank you,
Bob

As far as I know they were just regular infantrymen with a talent for music although its the kind of detail that gets left out of both modern and period books.

Falls into the the 'Obvious' category I guess. It does make you wonder when the manuals show them grouped in the rear but as I posted earlier I don't believe that happened during the war.

For what its worth I've never seen anyone portrayed in drawings or photo's without a rifle unless in Camp, where of course they had a range of duty calls to sound at various times.

I would offer that they are NOT armed. No accoutrements. Just canteen, haversack, and knapsack. They are accounted on the company rolls as musicians.

FWIW, although accounted for on the company r9olls as musicians, that is purely an administrative detail. It's how they were accounted for pay, clothing, leave, etc. Otherwise they were usually mustered with the regimental HQ and drilled/practiced under the command of the unit's chief musician, unless called out for duty or drill with their company (skirmish drill, etc) or with the battalion for daily drill, etc.

Although in the line of battle, both sides still considered musicians to be non-combatants, and the intent of musician's lace on jackets was to identify them as such to an enemy.

It's similar to the medical staff. Surgeons and other medical officers wore a green silk sash to identify them, and both armies to care to use special identifiers on caps or armbands for ambulance crews, litter bearers, medical orderlies, etc.

V/R

Tim,

So is it your view that even when down to 25 – 30% of paper strength, units would still group what buglers they still had behind the line of battle?

As usual, not arguing, just looking at the alternatives!

OK, I've resorted to my default position of digging out my Troiani's (seldom known to be wrong in his depictions) and hunting down some period photos.

First thing to report is that photo – wise, Tim is correct that there are no rifles present but as Don and Scott indicated the 'birdcage' facing lace appears mainly in Studio Photos.

Interestingly, across all the books I have, Troiani portrays buglers only five times (4 Confederate, 1 Union) all are shown as individuals not as part of a group of musicians but still as part of wider compositions.

They are in the following:

"Until Sundown"

"The Men Must See Us Today"

"Lee's Texans"

"Forward The Colors"

"Pat Cleburne's Men"

For what its worth, the ones which show the bugler where I would expect one to be (behind the battle line near the Colonel) are "Until Sundown" and "The Men Must See Us Today"

Trajanus,

Well, it'd be interesting to see how that might play out. The thing is, is that these men were enlisted a "musicians" which gave them a separate pay scale and usually relief from all fatigue duties and sentry details, except for standing watch with the officer in charge of the relief.

Theoretically, you'd have to discharge them, then reenlist them as a regular enlisted man.

I don't have an actual answer to this, but also keep in mind that musicians also succumbed to disease in similar proportions to the rest of the rank and file, and being exposed on the battle line also opened them up to being wounded or killed. In addition, many could be seconded to brigade HQ, or even higher if needs be.

FWIW, in my review of the 3rd Army Corps from the 30 June Muster rolls, some 12% of a unit's effective strength was, on average, detailed to duty at brigade, division, or corps level for various duties.

The actual level of men available on the firing line was always deceptive. The supernumerary rank and Regimental HQ account for 8 – 12% of paper strength on its own.

I just find the bugler thing another one of those 'OK so how did it really work?' items that make this such a fascinating hobby if you look behind the pushing lead around.

For example, going with the central grouping of buglers from the various Drill books.

The CO wants to put out a company as skirmishers. Who goes with them? One of the guys nominally on that companies strength? What if the buglers for that company are no longer around, does the Chief of Music then just point and shout 'OK Beiderbecke, your up!'?

Obviously not a wargaming consideration but it the kind of thing that drives me nuts! :o)