"Would this upset you?" Topic

WE were playing a Stalingrad game Saturday night. Mike set it up in his basement on his table. A break from the OFM's place!
He combined all the movies, etc.
The first phase of each turn was a roll-off between the Gernan and Russian commanders to see who got artillery that turn. I got it more often than not, and since "It's all about me!" I specified the German unit most menacing to the factory. Then I rolled a giant D20 and the fall scattered.
We all thought that since I was rolling 18s and 17s that that was the key to the drift.
As it turned out, it did not matter who "won" the roll-off or what the scatter was. All the D20 did was determine exctly where it fell, on German or Russian.
When we asked why we went through the rigamarole, he said "To mess with your minds".

Everybody loved that. We cracked up.

But, how would YOU react to that? How would some of the more white knuckled guys in your group react?

One or two of my chums would probably freak and upturn the table (as a friend did once in a game years ago when a well placed series of airstrikes wiped out his entire command). But the vast majority would be fine with it and resolve to use the same ploy at a later date.

One chap threw his dice to the end of the room, the dents in the wall are probably still there.

Sounds great! We have a similar thing in our annual Vietnam umpire mediated bash. It certainly makes things lively.

Fog of War!! Brilliant

LIKE!

Upturning the table! Isn't that a capital offence?

Muy brillante, Seņor'!

Fog of war. Nothing wrong with that!

Most would give a chuckle.

I would nit do that in a pblic setting like a convention.
@ home? no holds barred.

Actually the reactions are much how the player thinks of wargaming.
If the player thinks of it as a game, Games, whether you are serious to win or simply play, have "winners' and "losers" andbecause this ploy described is "un-fair play" or does not allow rules to be employed, that player will not like it.

But if the player thinks the who tabletop thing is a simulation, whether effective or not, of the military enviroment and its 'fog of war' and all, then those players will love it.

Thus OFM's description and question separates the two camps of players quite effectively. As the reader, and if you are honest to yourself about your own reaction should you be given such a scenario, you can effectively list yourself in one or the other.

Similar situation was throwing 2d6 for when the reserves showed up. On move 1 the throw was snake eyes and the umpire still made him throw every move for the reserve – even though double 1 meant that they had got lost and would never appear.

My usual group would grin, chuckle … and start thinking about how they would do it *better* the next game, yessiree … ;)

Our group would like it and we play for the fun of the game. We've had games where the "drifting" artillery fire has clobbered our own units.

Jim

Speaking of "fog of war", I am doing a test run of Germantown next game, using the 800 Fighting Englishmen variant for TSATF.

I might upend the table, but only as a result of falling over laughing.

As was mentioned above, it really depends on the kind of players you have. If they're used to a regimented tournament style of play, this kind of thing could be quite jarring. If they're used to narrative style of play and/or playing with GM's they'd probably be fine with it.

The fact that it was a GW who "messing" with the game, kind of indicates what kind of game it was and what the player's expectations were.

No one in my group would upend the table; that is unless the table was laying upon the belly of the gamer prior to said gamer standing up.

I've never known anyone of my mates to react in a petulant way to a game.
Now that can't be said about my wife.
My wife does not play war-games…mainly because it would inevitably turn into an actual war.
My wife is honestly the sweetest quietest most respectful lady you can imagine.
With the exception of when she plays a board game of any kind.
She literally turns into the John McEnroe of the table board game. Some of her outbursts have become quite legendary within the family circle mainly because they're so out of character.

A few guys would object – but a few others would comment on how well it simulated the random fall of artillery!

Dear John the OFM

Well I would be highly incensed that he wasted so much time on this which might have been better spent in getting in a turn or two more. I wouldn't care if he didn't even give us the die roll. Just do what he wished would be fine with me.

"When I'm at YOUR house I play by YOUR rules."

Most would think it neat ! A few however…

Well I guess it is okay. But I would have preferred to get in another turn instead of killing time for nothing. Yes, it was fun while you thought the rolls meant something. After that did you continue to roll each turn or just make the one roll and move on with the game?

I would pay good money to see someone try to flip over my table. But, happy to say no one in my group would react that way. We are there to play a game and hang out with friends. We don't get enough game time as it is, so we try to keep the turns moving to try to finish a game.

Love it – but yes know a friend or two who would get very frustrated and try to re-fight the battle…

Thanks for the idea – will likely steal it for a future game…

I call shenanigans.

I'm not a fan of illusionism.

Friction/fog of war stuff I love, but I don't care for deceiving players about mechanical functions of rules.

Seems that there is not much difference between rolling who gets artillery fire or rolling to see who gets hit by it.

I would not be upset, or complain about it, and would just roll with it. That said, I don't really see it as that funny, more a waste of time.

I've thrown in a dummy die roll here or there just to keep someone guessing; I don't see the point of doing it every turn.

I wouldn't be upset and depending on the scenario it would make for a pleasant addition to the game.

The software engineer in me recoils in horror at the inefficiency of the procedure. The simulationist recoils at the total lack of simulation in the procedure.

I find such to be amusing.

I tried a "blind box" game of Command Decision 2 (quite a few years ago). The setting was North Africa and each player got a headquarters and three units (I think). Reinforcements were rolled for and a lucky roll let the player pick from a group of boxes labelled with unit types appropriate to his army.

The key to the "blind box" concept is that the box you pick may contain the unit on the label or it may just contain what HQ has decided it can spare. I've forgotten most of the units but I do remember that one "panzer company" turned out to be a pair of Panzerjager Is, which lasted just long enough to get into Boyes anti-tank rifle range, and the British player ended up with two companies of Indian infantry which, despite his cursing his luck, ended up winning the game for him.

No complaints, no whinging, no "this game is bro-o-o-o-oken" from anybody. Unfortunately, the group I gamed with broke up soon after for a variety of reasons (to give you an idea of the age range, we lost one player who was deployed to Iraq and another who discovered girls) and I was never able to put together another game like that.

LT

Waste of time? One die roll per turn is a waste of time? Over 20 turns that might represent what? 2 minutes? Three?

SO long as I walked in knowing there would be some sort of "fog of war" mechanism in play I'd be cool with it. To have it announced at the end of the game as it was would be a littler off putting but I'd be a good sport about it.

The best way to prevent any outbursts or outrage from players is to let them know in advance that there will be "fog of war " mechanics employed and that things might not be as they appear. Frankly I love it. Those of us from an RPG background ought to be familiar with the concept and should not have any problems with it.

In our group upending the table would be a capital offence with disbarment.
Some would laugh and think it's fun, others would whine and complain. I'm in the fun camp. It's just a game!