"Back to the Sudan ?" Topic

I am looking to get back to Sudan gaming. I currently have a fair force of old 25mm Minifigs for the Dervish with a few British and Sudanese battalions from the same range that I've had for 30 years or so. However I have also picked up over the years, Essex, Redoubt, Castaway Arts and now a stack of old Ral Partha Dervish and some Egyptians. As you'd expect my problem is a lot of these ranges don't mix well and I'm at a point where I'd like to maybe start from scratch again. I'm not a fan of skirmish games but prefer medium size battles.
If you were starting again to build up armies for the Mahdist period what range/s would you suggest? Time and cost a factor so I have looked initially at the Perry Dervish plastics as one way to go.Any thoughts or ideas appreciated

cheers

Newline 20mm?

I went with the Perrys but wished I'd cobbled together forces from a range of 15mm makers. The Perry figures take ages to paint and the range doesn't cover the Mahdists wearing the later style colourful jibbeh.

I'd take a look at the 'War in 15mm' website and seek inspiration. With time and cost being factors I'd avoid 28mm altogether.

I still have my 28mm Sudan stuff but if I were to start over I would go with Blue Moons 18mm

Peter Pig have a very nice range of "small" 15mm for the Sudan. The Blue Moon look excellent for "large" 15/18mm.

If you really want large armies for low cost and much quicker painting Baccus 6mm have a 6mm Sudan range that looks to be to their usual excellent standard. The scale is not for everyone but it sure does make battles look like battles.

Any thoughts on rules you prefer.

It took me three failed attempts to get into the Sudan – once in 15mm, twice in 6mm. I finally succeeded at the 4th attempt, swayed by Peter Pig's lovey 15mm range.

Pendraken have them in 10mm, which will save you time and money.

I am in the process of clearing out a large RP Sudan collection. I love big figures and Perry's 25s are very nice. If I was to do it again in 25s I would seriously look at Perry plastics. I would also probably get the bulk of my metals from Old Glory. That said, If I was to do this again, I would probably go 15mm or smaller (maybe 10s?). If cost was an issue I would look at OG/Blue Moon. To me, if you want to game the Sudan (or anywhere in the desert,) you need lots of maneuver room, and you can't get that with 25mm figures and modern rifle and artillery ranges. Another option would be 1/72 plastics supplemented with 20mm metals.

For medium to larger battles I would definitely choose smaller figures on group bases. This will give the best look of a larger engagement. It will also give more space on the table which is good for the Sudan.

Rules wise I enjoy Field of Battle,it gives a nice unpredictable game and models most of the black powder era well.

I would join those suggesting 15/18mm. The Blue Moon range is very nice, fairly extensive and very affordable. Also a new range compatible with Blue Moon but covering the auxiliary troop types, Bashi Bazouks, Bazingers, Shia'qia and Egyptian gendarmes will soon be released. Lots to look forward to.

Kent

I have all Perry metal and plastic Sudan. The Beja I find to be just fine painting up. The plastics are nice and go together rather well.

Thanks guys, lots of food for thought here. I am rather partial to the bigger figures for older eyes to paint and my terrain is already 25mm scale. However the Blue moon 18mm look interesting and I'll have a look at them.
I have a lot of the Ancients plastics in 28mm and they do take a bit of time to assemble and prep but sounds as if the Perry ones are nice.
Rules wise I used to play the old Imperialism by, I think, Lyn Bodin and then have tinkered with DBM colonial versions and picked up A Good Dusting . I'll have a look at Field of Battle.Have to say I'm yet to find one I really like which I'll need to do before deciding on basing etc.
Cheers

Take a look at Battles for Empire.

Snagging a copy of Peter Pig's Patrols in the Sudan isn't a bad idea, regardless of what scale minis you go with.

I'm going with 15mm, though I erred and bought a mixed bunch of Peter Pig, Minifigs, Lancaster(?), Highlander, Rebel Minis, etc. While the others mix tolerably well with each other, the Peter Pig minis are *tiny* in comparison. Like children in costume, really!

For the Mahdists at least you should consider the original Old Glory 15mm range; lots of variety, everything you need, and cheap. The manufacturers offer a discount scheme with the percentage reduction increasing the more you buy. And they're the same size as Blue Moon, if you prefer to buy your colonial forces in smaller quantities.

The only potential issue if you're fussy is that the Ansar are in the later costume, so they're not really ideal for the early campaigns.

In 15mm, don't forget the Gallia range by Warrior Miniatures. Lovely figures at a good price.

I used 15mm Peter Pig, supplemented with some Minifigs for gaps in the range, such as Egyptian cavalry or Bengal lancers for the 1884-5 campaign. I've since added some extra Blue Moon units which look fine on the table alongside each other but won't really mix in the same unit. The Two Dragons range , now available from Caliver, is also compatible with them, but are mainly intended for the later 1898 campaign.

For rules, you really must buy a copy of "Science v. Pluck" if only for great ideas and background information, likewise the Sudan Wars Source Books from TVAG.

For rules, I'm now using a home grown adaptation of SvP together with some command and control rules taken from "Sharp Practice" using 1 stand of 4 figures per company, which looks good and makes most of the battles of the period very manageable, allows for a lot of period character and makes for some very tense, closely fought games – the earlier battles were all close run things.

Kent, don't leave us in suspense, who is planning a new range with all those lovely auxiliaries?

Well, sjwalker38:

I commissioned the range with a manufacturer in the UK.I am not at liberty to discuss the identity at this time but I have seen the greens for the initial releases and they are outstanding.

I had held back on doing the Sudan for years because of the lack of the auxiliary troop types in 15mm. Finally I figured I would grab the tiger by the proverbial tail and get it done.

I can tell you that the range will include:
Bashi bazouks on foot in 3 poses each with a variety of headgear
Mounted bashi bazouks
Bazingers in 3 poses with a variety of headgear
Mounted Gendarmes with a variety of headgear
Shia'qia tribesmen in 3 poses with variety of headgear

There are a couple I'm sure I'm overlooking. If the range proves popular, it will be expanded as the manufacturer has taken a real interest and has recognized this significant gap. Hopefully, we will have Egyptian regulars in Jallabahs as opposed to tunic and trousers. The sculptor is using the excellent "Go Strong into the Desert" for inspiration and source material so the range will be as accurate and varied as possible.

Hope that helps and keeps the appetite whetted.

Kent

That's great news, I'll keep an eye open for them to add to the lead pile.

Kent

So will you be doing a full range including the 'extras' or jeu the extras to fit in with Blue Moon. This range is 18mm? When will it be released?

Another vote for Peter Pig AND Gallia. Service from PP and Warrior Miniatures (purveyors of Gallia) are outstanding and the figures are terrific and compatible with one another. They are "true 15's." Quite a bit of variety available between the two.

Hi Timmo:

Yes, the range was intended to supplement the BM range. Really no point doing yet another range of British infantry. With BM, you have infantry in trousers and Essex, which are fairly compatible provide puttee'd infantry. However, Brits in Indian dress with blanket roll would be most useful as well. We will see. Have suggested Dismounted British cavalry, Camel cacolets etc. The producer is quite excited so if response is good, range will likely increase. Perhaps Gordon, Hicks Pasha and the Mahdi…

The Bashi's look great. Sculpted with the distinctive waist sash…right bandity…lol

This excellent news for for 15/18mm sudan collectors that some of the missing gaps will be filled. Looking forward to the release of your line and keep us informed on your progress.

Alcibiades,

This sound very interesting and may tempt me to start over in my preferred size however, if I'm honest I'm not that taken with Blue Moon and if your figures are a nice as they sound then a full range would surely be very popular. If you can provide what is widely considered the best then you've a ready market. When can we expect to hear more?

The initial greens were sent out for comment and inspection and have been returned with a thumbs up. As I understand it, the next stage is to produce the variants of headgear. I believe the manufacturer is aiming for an early autumn release.

I will see if its alright to post up the pics of the initial greens for comment and I will keep this board posted as progress is made.

Cheers
K

Alcibiades,
Any news on your new Sudan range?

Ditto that question :-)

Hope this project still sees the light of day sometime this year – any more news?

Alcibiades, think you're still active on TMP – did this new range ever get off the ground, or is ever likely to? With several new sets of colonial rules coming out in 2016, there's still a definite need for the figures we were discussing!