"need info on Independent Grenadier Battalions for AWI" Topic

I know that I have read that alot of times they would take the Grenadier companies out of their normal Battalions and make independent Grenadier battalions.

Does anyone know of a list of these independent battalions and gives info on the original units they came from. If they were from different Battalions each company would have diffrent color facings, right? or am I wrong on this?

I have tried to do some internet searching, but I am not coming up with any good info? Thanks for any help any of you can provide!

I have a bit of information on my blog – scroll past the Hessians and you'll find several posts on the British combined grenadier battalions. You are correct that each company would wear the uniform of its parent battalion and so most likely have different coloured facings. I'm sure that before too long someone will come along who'll give you chapter and verse on the various regiments that contributed companies to the combined battalions.

link

The grenadier companies would indeed wear the facings and lace of the parent regiment.
They would also not carry any flags.

What do you do with the Perry or foundry command packs that have standard bearers? Perry have two if I recall.

Give them a partisan or halberd.

Foundry is notorious for useless figures in a command pack. An Assyrian pack had 2 officers, a musician, a standard bearer, a philosopher and a man holding a fish.

So if I were to have a flag in for the grenadier battalion would they not even have carried the kings colors?
I can't stand not having a flag for a unit.
Creative licence.

Grenadier battalions did not carry flags at all. None. Zip. Nada.

Flags, including the King's Colours, belonged to REGIMENTS, not companies stripped from the regiments to form converged ad hoc battalions.

It's highly doubtful that colours were even carried by the hat companies in many cases.

The Grenadier and Light converged battalions were mixed companies, formed into elite battalions. The commanding officer was likely a major or Lt Col and would have worn a cocked hat, not a light or grenadier cap. No colours, as if carried, they remained with the hat companies.

A few people add flags to their grenadier battalions cause they like them. They are your figs, do as you enjoy.

One of the things I was surprised to find out was only grenadiers had fifers. So I went back and removed them from my line battalions.

Now a good question I've not considered before but what about the grenadier company from the Guards?? Were they assigned with the other grenadier companies into a battalion or did they form their own???

At Guilford Courthouse the only light and grenadier units present were converged from the Guards. Of course the southern battles were small. The elite companies from the foot regiments present must have been elsewhere. I'm a bit hazy on which battles the Guards fought up north. Not sure what happened then.

there's a flag in a museum down in, I believe, Brazil that was captured during the Napoleonic wars from the British expedition. It is obviously hand made and crude. It was carried by an ad hoc unit that didn't have it's own colors. However, they needed a rally point/guide on point so they made their own. I don't see why units like the converged grenadiers wouldn't have done the same.

The Foot Guards grenadier and light companies, paraded on the right of the 1st Battalion and left of the 2nd Battalion of the Composite Brigade. In the field, they remained with the Composite Brigade, but were kept apart from the two battalions, forming the reserve and advance guard, respectively. They were never converged with other grenadier or light companies from other units, but did occasionally join units such as the Queen's Rangers, British Legion, and other elite units on raids "between the lines" after Clinton returned to NYC at the end of 1778. For this reason, the Brigade was briefly reorganised in 1779 and for that year only there were two grenadier and two light companies, one of each being attached to the two battalions of the Brigade (although only the flank companies saw action). In 1780 they reverted to their original format.

@johnbear

What period of the war are you looking at? I may be able to help, but bear in mind that the composition changed frequently as captured regiments were exchanged and rejoined the Order of Battle, or the grenadiers of weakened regiments were drafted into other battalions when the regimental cadre was sent home, or a new CO took over one grenadier battalion and had the company from his regiment transferred into his new command from another grenadier battalion.

@Dn Jackson

Could you give us an idea of the size of this flag? The two most obvious options are either that it was a camp colour, or that it was a ship's flag carried by a unit of sailors.

SM
I've only seen photos of it so I can't give a size as there was nothing to scale it with. I think it was posted on this site several years ago.

@Dn Jackson,
If you scroll through the old topics on here about flags. You'll find a lot of information that was provided to us from Super Max and others on camp flags. I found out there were a lot of flags out there, just very few were carried into battle.

@Supercilius Maximus

Just looking for general info about what regiments would have been grouped together so I could determine somewhat properly how to depict the facings. I know these would have changed quite a bit throughout the war.

even though I know the battles wer smaller in the south, Did Cornwallis have one of these independent grenadier battalions?

Thanks

John,

No, the only grenadiers in the South with Cornwallis initially were the company of the Composite Brigade of Foot Guards, and that of the Queen's Rangers (both served with their parent unit). The 1st and 2nd Grenadier Battalions did take part in the siege of Charleston, but returned to NYC with Clinton. When Cornwallis took over command of Phillips' force in May 1781, he inherited the grenadiers of the 76th and 80th which (along with their light companies) had remained with the parent regiment.

In grouping the companies into battalions, generally it followed numerical precedence, with a battalion being formed of ten companies early in the war, but then getting larger – 14 or more was not uncommon. Occasionally, the CO would have his regiment's grenadier company transferred to his battalion (if it wasn't already in it), which could break the sequence.

Here are the orbats of the 1st and 2nd Grenadier Battalions during the siege of Boston, the brief stay at Halifax, and the Long Island/NYC campaign:-

1st Battalion (Lt Col Meadows [55th], Maj Mitchell [5th])
4th, 5th, 10th, 17th, 22nd, 23rd, 27th, 35th, 38th, 40th.

2nd Battalion (Lt Col Monckton [45th], Maj Stuart [43rd])
43d, 44th, 45th, 46th, 49th, 52nd, 55th, 63rd, 64th, 1/Marines, 2/Marines.

For the NYC campaign, a small 3rd Battalion was formed from the seven regiments that came up from the abortive attack on Charleston (15th, 28th, 33rd, 37th, 46th, 54th, 57th) and a similar-sized 4th Battalion from the double-strength companies of the Highland regiments (42nd, 1/71st and 2/71st). Both were disbanded in late 1776.

Prior to that, the single battalion at Lexington/Bunker Hill, was commanded by Lt Col Smith (10th) and then Lt Col Abercrombie (22nd):-

Lexington – 4th, 5th, 10th, 18th/65th*, 23rd, 38th, 43rd, 47th, 52nd, Marines, 59th.
[* combined company, about half-and-half]

Bunker Hill – 4th, 5th, 10th, 18th/65th, 23rd, 38th, 43rd, 47th, 52nd, 59th.
(The grenadiers of the 35th, 1/Marines, 2/Marines and 63rd were also present, but served in a small "flank" battalion of converged grenadier and light companies under Clinton; the 35th's grenadiers were parcelled out to the Royal Artillery as mattrosses.)

When basing your figures, if you want to consider seniority then the lowest numbered regiment went on the right, second lowest on the left, third lowest inside the lowest, fourth lowest inside the second lowest, and so on moving in towards the centre. So the Bunker Hill battalion would line up thus (assuming the enemy at the top of the page):-

5th, 18th/65th, 38th, 47th, 59th, 52nd, 43rd, 23rd, 10th, 4th.

The single grenadier battalion in the Saratoga campaign would line up thus:-

20th, 24th, 31st, 47th, 62nd, 53rd, 34th, 29th, 21st, 9th.

(it's possible the 9th and 20th swapped places, as the CO of the Battalion was from the 20th).

Hope that helps.