"Vitcrix - Fight for the Skies Announcement " Topic

Victrix announced "Fight for the Skies", a WW2 air combat game.

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victrixlimited.com

Hope you enjoy!.

Amicalement
Armand

Yeah dog fights between Stukas and Typhoons, they can pull the other one, these are for those that play FOW, nothing else. IMO a waste of plastic (unless you play FOW) they could have done Spits Mk1 vers Me109-3s or even Zeros and Wildcats and I'd be saying hemm interesting, as is hemm! Boring! M2cW

In…1/100th?!

W. T. F.

That's a lot larger than 1/144. 1/144 is already a large established aircraft scale and they should have done this to cross-tap on modelers (and the few who game in the scale, hint, hint).

Wow! Oh…. 1/100th.

(scratching head) Hmmm…yea not sure why 1/100th but it is close around the 15 mm size, but as Augustus already pointed out 1/144 is well established. What is the scale on the Wings of Glory figures? When I first heard that Victrix was doing this I was hoping it was going to be more toward a scale suitable for 28 mm.

Wings og Glory WW2 is 1/200

Zargon -- I cant find the news item now, but Victix did say that the 2nd set of planes would be from a prominent air battle -- which really comes down to Spit vs Me or Zero vs Wildcat.

Hey there Nick, that's good for them but the first offering is (surprise surprise) the main aircraft used as support for FOW, now if they had of done a whole WOW type thing with a smaller scale say 1/200 or even 1/250 and had a whole pile of squadrons for their first offering with say 10 spits and Hurricanes ver the same amount of 109 and 110 to get the ball rolling they would have been up to something interesting (bombers etc next release and so on) but close to 15mm scale aircraft are not really practical for aerial gaming, that's proven by WOW unless you want to do one on one aircraft WIMO is unrealistic and frankly boring. Shame though the could have really done something with this. Cheers

First release:

Junkers Ju87D-5/G Stuka
Hawker Typhoon
P47 Thunderbolt
IL2 Sturmovik

AIR combat.

Right.

From their website

"Our initial releases obviously concentrate on the ground attack warfare but all being well the next tranche of releases will focus on one of history's most iconic air battles."

Seems pretty reasonable, selling initially to the 15mm WW2 community. And from what I could see looking at the site this is a range of models rather than a game (I may have missed it but I didn't see mentikn of rules). Why give them a hard time?

I can't speak for anyone else, David, but for me personally, its just the sheer disappointment. This could have been a great opportunity for WW2 air combat to lift its profile in the gaming community. Not saying that WW2 WoG hasn't done that, by the way – I just find the minis for WoG don't 'do it' for me.)

I'd just adore a range of decently-detailed plastic miniatures, in 1/100th or thereabouts, that allows refights like the ones of my childhood imagination – the Battle of Britain comes mostly to mind. Another batch of unconnected releases of ground attack planes is a real letdown, for me.

This might be a good way to test the waters, but its also just stamping out the same thing that others have done before. Dull.

Where's my 1/144th Boulton-Paul Defiant?!?!?!? Anyone who read Commando comic knows that airplane could do anything! :D :D :D

Fighters will be next.

Ground attack aircraft were made first to fit in with Flames of war gamers. A very popular rules system so when taking a punt (spending our money)not a bad risk to take if it can fit with a large market.

The aircraft have the detail of fine 1/72 scale aircraft as we wanted to make wonderful models that appeal to modellers and gamers and not just counters and rough approximations.

1/44th scale does have a lot of product already but also we have not said we will not retool at smaller scales.

Aircraft rules are not out until next year so you will have the fighters for dog fights by then. They will not just focus on dog fights however, so ground attack and bombers will be needed to cover the rules and scenarios planned.

Actually, I've been waiting for a 1/100 Typhoon plastic kit for ages, so they get a thumbs up for me anyway!

Ate FOW airplanes not 1/144 ?

The FOW airplanes from Battlefront are 1/144. Some FOW gamers prefer 1/100 airplane models.

Steve, pardon my ignorance – you use the terms 'us' and 'we' so I'm assuming you are directly connected with Victrix?

If so, let me share some thoughts. Ignore them or take them onboard, entirely your choice.

"Aircraft rules are not out until next year so you will have the fighters for dog fights by then."

I honestly believe this is a grave error. Yes, you'll sell some models to some people who play 15mm WW2. (However, if the FoW crowd already have A/C in 1/144, I don't think they'll be as happy about using 1/100 alongside them.)

Release miniatures and rules in one. Make it a boxed game. Make it 1/144.

Just a possible example – Set with 1x B17G (or maybe 2 Mitchells, if the B-17 is too big an initial investment) and for 'Little Friends' 3x P47 or P51's. Germans get 4x FW190's or Bf109Gs. It provides an instant scenario straight out of the box (escort mission / intercept) and would appeal to the US market in particular.

Include (or offer separately) Squadron-level decal sets. Not the markings of a single original aircraft. If I get into these models, I'll want to model all of No19 Squadron's Spitfires, circa Summer, 1940, not the same aircraft over and over again. In my opinion, this has been a drawback of the WoG ww2 range.

Why 1/144? Firstly, the models will fit better with the existing models in the collections of the stated initial target market – FoW players – and also, the tooling costs for 1/144 are a bit cheaper than 1/100. Maybe not notably for single engined fighters, but how far are you willing to go? Will the range just have a handful of single engine planes, and then die, or are you willing to commit to producing B17's, Lancasters, He111's even B29's? On a 6x4' table, a 1/144 Lancaster is a manageable miniature, but somewhat less so at 1/100.

One last thing – in the name of God in His Heaven, I beg you – DON'T make these models with separate, posable undercarts. Leave the gear up! No air gamer wants to muck around with getting the wheel wells closed up!

My tuppence. :)

I will pile in here too!

1. I like 1/100 -- I already have the Airfix prepaints and Angels 20 planes. And I am one of those FOW curmudgeons that use 1/100 planes!

2. Please do squadron decals

3. If doing Battle of Britain please do a 1/100 German bomber. If doing the Pacific please do a 1/100 Betty. Those fighters need something to attack / defend! And while these planes are available in 1/100 in metal, they are a serious chunk of lead -- makes it hard to get them up on a stand!

Hi MacrossMartin,

I am co owner of Victrix with Julian.

You have lots of good points. We did think long and hard about starting in 1/44th but it is a market that does have a lot of aircraft already.

When you have a company like Zvezda can bring out a nice looking 1/44th aircraft for about £3.50 GBP there was no way we could compete on that price and quality.

1/72nd scale aircraft still sell very well. The modelling market is a lot broader than the gaming market.As an experiment when you go to your local newsagent and look at the Hobby Magazines. Have a look how many gaming magazines there are in comparison to Modelling magazines and then also look at circulations of those magazines. It is quite an eye opener! 15mm Aircraft kits have been a bit neglected and so one of the reasons for going for 15mm was to have a scale that still has enough high level detail for a modeller but can also slot into 15mm WW2 rules. Yes not all gamers will want to use 15mm aircraft with their 15mm tanks but enough indicators from customers say they will.

These are high quality well engineered models, not just gaming pieces. You can model with undercarriage up or down. It is an easy slot in piece.

More transfer sheets will be sold separately online so you will be able to do different units etc…

Bombers will also be made as we will be doing scenarios involving escort duties.(Unless of course the range dies on it's backside!)

You are right in saying that it would be great to bring it all out in one go as a boxed game, but that costs a very large amount of money. Unless we did a Kickstsrter (which we are reluctant to do)it will have to grow organically.

Regards,

Steve.

Kudos to Victrix for taking a shot at this. I suggest we withhold judgment and all the negativity until we get more information…

I hope that you will eventually add all the "tropicalized" aircraft for North Africa. The biggest reason I want 1/100 aircraft is for raiding the airports!

Transports and bombers would also be nice, if we're talking bigger birds. Someone gaming Eben Emael needs at least 9 DFS200 gliders, doing Crete needs lots of Ju52s, and a brave soul doing D-Day or Market Garden needs Waco and Hamilcar(?, the big British cargo model) gliders in addition to C47s.

Steve –

Applause to you sir, for taking the time to explain your perspective. If only all miniature companies had such a willingness to engage directly with their audience. I disagree on several points, but that's not really an issue; I can certainly see the logic of your choices.

I'd like to suggest you don't abandon the Kickstarter approach wholesale. Instead, why not release the initial range, assess it's success or lack of, and, if it flies, THEN go with a Kickstarter boxed game approach?

I'm unaware of your planned schedule, but, given that 2015 presents the last opportunity for WW2 'anniversary' tie-ins, I'd eagerly throw money at a late war boxed game, set during the air campaign usually referred to as the Battle of the Reich. – Contents similar to those I described above.

In a Kickstarter format, upgrade goals could include the addition of aircraft such as the Me262 jet, Fw190-D9, British late-war fighters (Tempest, Griffon-engined Spitfires,) and/or additional decals / detailing parts.

I agree with your point about Zvezda. Yes, they can produce models very cheaply, and, competing with them directly could be considered an error. However, I argue that Zvezda and other companies are not really giving the 1/144 market the aircraft they want.

Sweet in Japan make some beautiful models in 1/144. I was over the moon when they brought out their Hawker Hurricane. What a pity there was no Me109E for it to tangle with. Nor a Spitfire 1a… or a decent Bf110… and just forget about ever finding a Do17 or early Ju88 in 1/144.

My point is this – 1/144 gamers have a pig of a time filling the gaps in the flightline. They have to collect the aircraft FIRST and must then game whatever actions said aircraft were involved in. Want to fight the Battle of Britain in 1/144th? Good luck with finding half the aircraft involved, unless you're willing to shell out for resin garage kits, or eBay overpriced out-of-production 'Gashapon' pre-paints from Japan.

I honestly feel there is a great opportunity here to tap into two distinct markets – air modellers / collectors and wargamers. In my opinion, (for what that's worth…) 1/100 scale would shut the door to a great many sales to the air modelling community, (who usually build / collect to a favourite scale) while 1/144 would throw that door wide open.

That's the last I'll try with my pro-1/144 pitch! ;)

But, one final thing:

"These are high quality well engineered models, not just gaming pieces. You can model with undercarriage up or down. It is an easy slot in piece."

- says the man who's never tried to assemble the undercart on a Matchbox 1/72 Mosquito. Can I at least recommend you offer option parts to allow the retracted undercart and doors to be assembled as single pieces?

Thanks for taking the time to read the ramblings.

- Martin

So, any chance of some aircraft for Spanish Civil War era?

Actually, any chance of these being sold as either singles, or mixed sets? For battlegroup kursk/overlord/fall of the Reich I'll basically need one if every model announced so far, but don't really need 3 of them.

I echo many of MacrossMartin's points.
Also, I don't need a single or mixed set. I prefer a pair (Rotte) or two pair (Scharm).

1/100 works for me. I've got Tempests but no Tiffys! Sturmoviks are good too. Guntruck – take a look at Minarons for SCW 'planes.

I remember using 1/72 models on the floor for aerial gaming – using 6 to 9 B-17s at a time made for a large game!

1/100th – lovely! :)

Advert in WSS shows them as priced at £24.95 GBP for 3 which is a lot, you would get 3 airfix 1/72 models for less than that and as for FOW their more than battlefronts metal models. I was looking forward to these but I can't justify that price

Super. Just right for Blazing skies! :)