"Horrible experience at Kublacon in Bay Area" Topic

A very good friend of my experienced the following at Kublacon over Memorial Day weekend. He has contacted the organizers and as of yet has heard nothing in reply, no apology, zero. I'm pretty amazed as I always thought this convention was run by a stand up group of people. This is NO WAY to treat someone who for years has put their blood sweat and tears into the hobby and supporting this convention.

Is this really how the staff of Kublacon wants to treat their GMs?

About as angry and ed off as I've ever been. Sitting in my back yard trying to cool off.

I get all the way down to KublaCon; hotel parking structure closed. Hotel guests only. Never had that happen before; in all the years I've gone there I've never seen that. So I head to the overflow parking down the street, or at least what I hope is overflow; sure isn't well marked. I'm almost on the shore of the Bay, quite a walk from the hotel. And I have lead and terrain to schlep.

Now to the registration desk, get my badge. One of the things I like about KublaCon is that they support their GMs; you get a cool pin (I've got a nice collection) and Kubla Bucks to give the winner of the game. Alas, none this time; they are out of both. On the second day of the con? Really? Lots of events this year, they say. Um, then order more pins, moron. You make us sign up to run events months in advance; surely math is not beyond you.

Now to the line to get a parking pass for the overflow lot that is at least still in San Mateo County. The girl says $40. USD Excuse me? No, she wasn't ting me. Forty dollars. FORTY DOLLARS. To park way the hellandgone in an unsecured lot, and all my stuff won't fit in the trunk. Um, no.

That was it. Too many hoops, too much crap. They said they got slammed yesterday; most people they've ever had on a Friday, and they had to rent the overflow lot, which was already fast filling up. Best they could maybe (MAYBE) do was $25 USD, since I was only going the one day.

At that point, fed up, I left. Message received: if this is how they support their GMs, then they don't want me to run a game. I won't be attending KublaCon in future.

Or any other con, for that matter. DunDraCon, where they put me in a poorly lighted room waaaaaay off the main convention floor, was the first strike; today was the final straw. There are better uses of my time and money and expertise, if I may use that term. Never again.

So home now; need to unload the car, do some chores, then off to the dungeon. Hopefully the day will get better.

I am sorry to hear about your experience. Perhaps this was a one off fluke? The parking fees are outrageous, but typical of big city hotels (especially if it is near an airport).
Perhaps the organizers might read your post and hopefully extend some sort of olive branch on this one.

Hotels are generally obligated to reserve a spot for each hotel room. Maybe he wasn't early enough? Tough break but I don't think I'd write off the whole con because of parking and the lack of free stuff to run games.

Advise your friend to come to Nashcon next year. Parking is free and close. Guys always help carry your stuff in. And out. We say thank you sir and mame and have a good ol time. We don't stand in line for anything. And no we don't have pins so nobody is unhappy. And we can't wait to do it again. If your friend comes accross the nation next year I'll pay his way in. In Yankee dollars. And that is a promise.

Suggestion -- always cool down for 24 hours BEFORE posting an outraged screed on your friend's behalf.

Sounds as though he was treated poorly.
Sounds as though he probably over-reacted.

If it's an HMGS event, I'm not surprised. Even though each region is run by different people, I've seen some ignorant (albeit that takes the cake) stuff at Midwest and East cons as well.

When I read the title of this thread, I thought this was going to be about someone getting mugged, or beaten up, or a female gamer being sexually harassed (the latter happening all too frequently at gaming events).

But no, it was about a lack of parking space and free badges. I guess one man's inconvenience is another man's horrible experience.

Personally $40.00 USD to park!!! Not cool. I would be ticked myself. I'm not sure I would attend any con with a parking fee. I hope this was advertised in advanced. I would be even more upset if I travelled a long distance to have to pay for parking. I've never had to pay a parking fee, ever for a gaming convention including Historicon.

Duane

Hold on…

He has agreed to run a game for the con.
Presumably as seems to happen in the US people have signed up to play his game in advance.
He decides on the day not to put on the game and thus lets down the con and the players that are expecting him?

I can understand his frustration, but bailing on the folks who had signed up to play his game punished the wrong people.

Also, step-back and try to get some perspective: Does not getting a pin, and having to pay more for parking really ruin your whole day?!? Take a deep breath, leave that stuff at the door, and go enjoy your game. Conventions are not an every-day thing, I wouldn't let stuff like this take the fun of the convention away from me.

At most, he should have said, "Guys, if this isn't fixed next year, I won't be hosting any more games."

No sympathy from this quarter. Paying for parking in a big city? And no pin! Oh, my, talk about a First World Problem.

Meanwhile, the players who signed up for his game are left high and dry, through no fault of their own. I'd remember his name, I'd never sign up for another of his games, and I'd spread the word to my fellow gamers.

Also, anyone who takes the time to type, "Sitting in my back yard trying to cool off," is a big ol' drama queen in my book.

"This is NO WAY to treat someone who for years has put their blood sweat and tears into the hobby and supporting this convention."

"Blood, sweat, and tears"….blood? What kind of games is he running?

Really? He showed up, he was prepared and willing to put on his game. The con organizers showed they didn't care if he stayed or left. The players who lost out should take it up with the con organizers.

jpattern2: No sympathy from this quarter. Paying for parking in a big city? And no pin! Oh, my, talk about a First World Problem.

This.

Based on that rant, it sounds like his players dodged a bullet.

Thanks for the comments guys. I didn't attend and I always liked this event which is held in California as a general game convention just outside of San Francisco. He's a good friend of mine and I thought it would possibly be of some help to post his comments here, mostly to see if the organizers might approach him directly. As of yet he's heard nothing.

I do agree that his initial comments were made when he was still very angry, but he drove a long way to have all this happen and it was all unexpected. I myself would have handled the situation differently but I also go about things differently in general. I would never shlep all my stuff 20 blocks I would have unloaded at the main door no matter what they said. Still he is a good friend and it's a shame he was so bothered.

His games are usually very well attended and he's a great GM. He's been running games from a long time at many local conventions. He's also very cost conscious and an unexpected $40 USD fee hurts more than you might think. Heck I would have been extremely upset about that aspect as well just on principle. I am nearly certain that was not mentioned anywhere in the literature for the event online or elsewhere. For someone on a strict budget that can be a real problem.

Again, appreciate the different thoughts on the matter.

I hope someone from the con at least offers some thoughts if nothing else.

Remember the parking was full at the parking garage for HOTEL GUESTS. I ran games at KublaCon and had no problems because I stay at the Hotel and I arrived early Friday. I did have friends that ran into similar issues because they were not staying at the hotel.
I do know everyone can not due this.

Give them a few more days to reply. If they were running a con on the weekend some of them are probably still sleeping. Running a con is a tiring job. Then there's lots of stuff to take care of afterwards. They may get back to him yet as no doubt there is a backlog of e-mail and stuff to handle.

Parking in a city is a pain. They should have at least had arrangements to use the loading dock or something.

KublaCon attendees should be aware the SF CalTran station at Broadway (just across the 101 freeway) is within half a mile of the convention hotel I think. A short walk if physically able. Wouldn't help a GM with a car load of gaming stuff but the individual traveling light it is an option. I have used this method twice traveling from my brother's house in Sunnyvale (near San Jose) for my one day convention visits.

CalTran info: caltrain.com

Maybe the convention could have a "call up" taxi service with a van several times during the convention day to and from the Broadway Caltran station. Post the call in number in the convention program material/website and the shuttle van appears in 15 mins sort of thing. Does the hotel have a taxi/limo service which could be used like the "SF airport" shuttle? If they have a "off site parking shuttle the same could be used with the Caltran station guest pickups.

GM should have a "pass" mailed out (or on a name list) for loading dock temporary use while unloading if not staying at the hotel.

As for the convention charges…. My thoughts are $30 USD (one day) plus parking fee ($10-20), food & drink ($20)…. and you are into the con for almost $70 USD for one day per person. A father & son (or daughter) team is $140 USD in the hole. That is a lot of future purchases I will have to forego when I can have a great game with my gaming group for just transportation (driving time) cost… ie gas). Always been the problem down here in LAX Strategicon conventions. The miniature gamers have wised up to the total cost. Only the scheduled event GM gets to waive the convention charges (saved $30 USD or more) so they each run a game and rotate as players among their games when not running their own 8 hour convention scenario. Large scale miniature events (mult-table type games) should be given reduced convention day entrance fee ($10 off voucher maybe) for the players who sign up and attend/play the scenario game. Draw in more non-GM miniature players which requires more GMs to host the large showcase convention games. Games of multiple players on each side… not one on one player tourney games. The Convention wants the large flashy "showpiece" games to draw in convention attendance and splashy wargame magazine reviews and photos. These games cost thousands of dollars to the GM… miniatures, painting time or cost, organizational efforts, terrain for tabletop, research, write up time, scenario design, transportation issues and cost…etc. A lot more GM effort than any form of board game or card game GM. If the convention staff want these games… step up and plan to spend some money. At a minimum, treat the GM for these large mult-player convention events with support, a well lit location, and assistance (and free lunch). The terrain and painted miniatures will do the rest.

Some thoughts…

M

And people complain about the cost of attending Salute! £10.00 GBP entry and £12.00 GBP for parking at the venue. In the middle of London! Bargain…..

If I am attending an out of town convention and I am putting on a game, I always stay at the hotel the convention is at,unless it is a really bad hotel or the convention site is not a hotel.

I get there the day before and scope out the joint. I go ahead and register. Then I set up my game as soon as I can get the tables.

Never had to pay for parking and yes in some parts of the country $40.00 USD for parking is outrageous. I wouldn't pay that.

If I agreed to do a game then I will do everything I can to show up. Life happens but I will make my best effort.

I have had to deal with bad table locations, bad lighting, bad tables etc. Bad lighting is a pet peeve of mine.

It helps to get someone to help you setup and run the game. I rarely do one by myself.

I also prefer to attend historical game conventions so hopefully they understand that historical games take much more effort to plan and setup.

If your running a game you should get in for free or at a discount. Usually you have to pay full price because conventions are done on a shoe string budget and they need all the revenue they can get. However without the GMs you don't have a convention. Running conventions is hard work too.

I would have been livid too.

$40 USD for parking, especially that far away is ridiculous, but not surprising, for a city in The People's Republik of Kalifornia.

If paying for the convention, then parking should be included in the fee(s).

GMs should get free parking, and admission.

Glad I didn't attend, and will have to beware of such exhorbitant costs for future cons.

A shame hotels and conventions here are pricing themselves out of business.

Mako- $40 USD for all day parking in ANY major city downtown (or near a major airport) is the going rate, like it or not (and not just in California).

That the con staff should have done a better job of communicating the cost of parking beforehand goes without saying. That would've gone a long ways towards avoiding a situation like this.

With all due respect I have never heard of parking that expensive at any other convention I've been to. This includes all the HMGS events on the East Coast like Historicon, Cold Wars and Fall In, as well as Origins and Gencon too. At Gencon parking in a protected covered lot directly across the street from the convention site, a 30 second walk max, was about $25 USD for 3-4 days. And I was just a dude attending the convention and not someone running anything or a GM. If downtown Indianapolis for Gencon that attracts something like 30,000 people charges less than Kubla that tells me something isn't right. Not to mention he had to walk 20 or more blocks away. All three above mentioned HMGS events have free parking and it has always been directly on the location of the convention, never some huge distance away.

With all due respect to the offended individual, I've been to this hotel to attend a different Con there many years ago. Yeah, the parking lot is a bit of a hike but not particularly unpleasant – you do have the San Francisco Bay a step away on the west of you the whole length of the parking lot. People come from all over the world for that view. As to hauling figures, the hotel has very nice carts you can roll down to your car (or could back when). The $40.00 USD fee, well, yeah that is steep but as others have pointed out, not out of line in today's world. The pin issue, okay, yeah nice little bit but sometimes logistics run by amateurs goes slightly awry, the best method of dealing with this is to let it be water under the bridge.

And for those posting complaining about the GM abandoning his players – maybe, maybe not. A lot of Cons out here have sign up sheets on the day rather than any type pre-registration. So I don't know that anyone got left in the lurch. I could be wrong on this point since I've never attended this convention (not a historical focused one despite having some such games).

My challenge is with the general tenor and attitude of the GM post situation – did he bail immediately – even after being offered (apparently) a reduced rate on that parking fee? And just how far did he drive? I know a lot of the GMs in Northern California and the worst drive coming from the north would be from the Chico area, about a four hour drive. No way I'd just turn around and drive back that far without at least giving some effort to the convention. And while Jason's intentions may be good, not sure this the right way to handle this whole situation.

Our hobby is small, tiny in many respects, and this discord in so public a forum is simply not called for. We already have one convention that made the fateful decision to go head to head against a rival convention on the same major holiday weekend and be less than an hour's drive apart. If this sort of thing keeps up there won't be any conventions left.

So, I say keep such complaints private and directed to the appropriate staff of the convention for follow-up.

And if this is the worst thing (angriest he's ever been) to ever happen this guy, he should count himself remarkably lucky. Life hands some of us vastly worse situations to deal with. So, lighten up, dude. It's a freaking gaming convention, you didn't get mugged or robbed from.

Only $40 USD to park?

All day?

Why didn't you post this earlier?

I'm calling my broker. I'm investing in California parking lots! Heck I'll let you park in my drive way for $30.00 USD.

California taxes+California real estate=California prices.

Make mine Tennessee. Nashcon has plenty of parking, free for all attenders, at the hotel. Inside, all the convention rooms are pleasant, spacious and well lit.

I paid for parking at a writers convention near downtown Nashville once. I paid $8 USD to park in the hotel's garage. The next day, I found a spot on the street about thirty yards away. It was a Saturday, and Nashville doesn't fine for weekend street spots, so no money needed for the meter. But since those spots were scarce, the organization moved the writers con to a hotel in the same area as the Nashcon site, with nearly identical amenities. And free parking.

Life is good in middle Tennessee. And it's a lot cheaper, too.

I can appreciate the parking complaint. But anger over a pin… not so much.

I am not an official spokesperson for Kublacon, but I'm a volunteer in the Miniatures area, and was brought up to date/asked about the situation by the owner of the convention on Saturday night of the con.

Japji Khalsa, the producer of KublaCon, has asked me to post the following as a response to the specific request on this forum for the Convention chime in:

"
The Gamemaster (who asked his friend to post for him), did indeed send us an email on the day of his event.

I let him know, in a conversation on Facebook, that I didn't respond to his email because it was a ‘venting' email filled with accusations and finger-pointing. He didn't either ask for specific help or offer solutions/suggestions. He accused us of "GOUGING" (his all caps) and poor planning.

To clarify: Parking was $40 USD for the weekend, not for one day. He came only for the day, and as others have noted, and as we have noted, the hotel is required by LAW to provide parking first to their room guests.

He claims our parking lot was "blocks away." It is directly across the street from the hotel… not even a block away.

We have an entire post about parking that's linked to our Facebook page, and that we assume he has read because he has commented on it. Here's the link to it:
PDF link

I don't know if he attempted to park on the street… but on Sunday morning there are typically some spaces within a few blocks.

He only spoke to the front registration desk when picking up his badge… and didn't go the Miniatures area requesting help or clarification. As a side note – a stash of GM pins were temporarily misplaced, and KublaBucks aren't handled by the reg desk, they're handled by the miniatures team who never saw or spoke to him. We always have KublaBucks; we print them ourselves.

I know that he's a skilled game master, and has a lot of passion for the games he runs. And we're sorry that he felt compelled to leave.

We're already working on plans to help GM's who arrive with terrain/gear/mins/etc to have an option to ‘drop off' their supplies. (This requires negotiation with the hotel… which is staffed by union employees.)

As people on these forums know… a convention is run by volunteers. Both GM's and staff invest hundreds of hours in preparing and then hosting an event that lasts 72 hours non-stop.

I'm proud of our team, and stand by the excellence and passion that they bring to our event in an effort to help our guests have a safe and fun weekend.
"

Roderick Robertson
Kublacon Minis Assistant
For Japji Khalsa, Kublacon Producer

Thank you RR for your post.

A quick google map street view look shows your "parking zone" across the street. Your PDF link explained the $40 USD/weekend charge (Saturday and Sunday I assume). But if guests cannot expect to find a packing space in the overflow lot for quick in/out trips then the $40 USD is for nought. Having 150 "extra" parking spaces is too few for the convention size. Suggest maybe look south towards San Jose area for better future convention site with ample parking for thousands, not hundreds and not hotel parking dependent. Why constraint yourself to the Hyatt when they cannot handle the present parking issue it seems.

Note: I used the CalTran system (Broadway station stop) in the past visits (non GM) so this parking situation as a non GM guest was never an issue for my one day visit from Sunnyvale.

>>>With all due respect to the offended individual, I've been to this hotel to attend a different Con there many years ago. Yeah, the parking lot is a bit of a hike but not particularly unpleasant – you do have the San Francisco Bay a step away on the west of you the whole length of the parking lot. People come from all over the world for that view.

You are mistaken as to the location of this convention. The convention you are referring to above was originally called Pacificon and later Conquest SF. It was held at the hotel directly abutting the Bay. The convention under discussion known as Kublacon is south on the opposite side of the road and not abutting the Bay at all. Has a fine view of the Bay if you have a room looking east about the 5th floor or higher.

>>>As to hauling figures, the hotel has very nice carts you can roll down to your car

My understanding is they were not letting him unload his stuff and he had to park and walk it in.

My understanding from said gamer is the lot next door was full as well and he was forced to park a long ways away and was not offered any compensation for being a GM and for parking for a single day.

That said, the owner of the convention has spoken via proxy and said his piece. Not sure what else anyone least of all me can do here. I don't really have a dog in this race either way other than I was sad to hear my friends story and I have always had good memories of Kubla.

I can tell you this, ranting or venting or not he would really like to hear a reply directly from the organizer. Not from a proxy or on Facebook. He also didn't ask me to post here btw. Frankly I don't even think he knows I did so. Sometimes just stepping up and saying "we understand" or "we take responsibility" or "we will try harder to help next time" is all someone needs to hear. He's a good guy and a direct reply would certainly mean a lot I'm sure.

Thanks for reading, thanks for your thoughts.

I was at Kublacon. I had a room. I was there for five nights, and only gamed one day… because I was in SF for other reasons. Sadly parking was an issue for even guests like me who had pre-paid parking, so I have a bit of empathy for the poster on this, and a conflict.

However I witnessed the worst crowding at Kublacon ever…the day crowd and hotel full of gamers meant incredibly long waits at the in service elevators. Jammed rides in completely claustophobic conditions- -- folks jamming into elevators when other were clearly waiting before them.

Overall the convention seemed to be clearly overloaded by gamers, but the historical areas were less jammed… lucky me.

In the past I have felt that Kublacon offered up a nice venue with the added attraction of visiting folks in SF, but this year it resembled a ComicCon vertical cluster fracas… so unless I figure out a way of staying somewhere else, and carrying in for that one day of gaming.. I wont be going back again or staying despite the convention rate.

The facility was stressed… that's for sure- fire alarms in the night and angry people getting their cars towed when they parked in defiance across the street… too much of a good thing leads to its demise….

I was mad about standing in line at Fall In. Always, pre-register. But I got over being mad because I knew almost everybody behind the counter and the jokes I made fell flat. Life goes on, sometimes happy, sometimes sad. Who knew wargaming was like real life.