"Naval gaming table clutter" Topic

I've done a lot of work to make my naval games look nice, painting and detailing the models, choosing realistic colors and patterns of ocean surface, creating nice shore lines, choosing or crafting realistic looking markers, etc.

Inevitably, the table surface of a naval miniatures game gets cluttered with charts, rosters, rulers, dice, pens, drinks, food, cell phones, etc. It's almost impossible to keep the table clear of them. After a few turns, it looks less like a sea surface and more like a poorly organized business meeting.

I've had a little success with a few measures like dice trays and side tables, but only a little. Any other suggestions?

- Ix

I was faced with a similar problem over the weekend while re-fighting Tsushima. The only thing I can suggest is what I did- have a smaller table nearby where people can put things, and make each admiral keep his paperwork in his hand. A difficult task indeed!

Are you implying that naval wargames are not poorly organized business meetings? </ lame attempt at humor>

Smaller reference sheets, maybe put the info on index cards and secure with a key ring through a corner. Easier to hold, smaller footprint on the table, a little harder to use.

Rulers and such with a ring on one end, binder clips on the edge of the table. Use the binder clip to secure a hook so the rulers and such hang from the underside of the table an inch or so inside the edge.

Use a yard stick to whack the first person that puts something on the table. The rest will figure it out.

I try to minimize reference charts by using wall charts.

We also sometimes impose a penalty on rolls based on the number of extraneous items on the table.

"Let's see, a minus two for range, and a minus one for the cell phone. Oh wait, the Cheetos are a minus two, so go ahead, subtract five from your roll."

I have also built two podiums to set next to the table. They work better than a side table because they are higher, but are prone to being knocked over unless properly weighted at the bottom.

This! ---> 'We also sometimes impose a penalty on rolls based on the number of extraneous items on the table.

"Let's see, a minus two for range, and a minus one for the cell phone. Oh wait, the Cheetos are a minus two, so go ahead, subtract five from your roll."'

This keeps it lighthearted but drives home the point. Also, it charges the currency most wargamers are most loathe to pay – any tactical edge. Great tip, coryfromMissoula.

If I start physically reprimanding players, I might be the first victim in my own games. :-)

I already condense the charts and tables and rosters as much as I can. I give each player a single binder with all the info and rosters he needs. I nearly always have a side table or two where the dice, rulers and markers start out, but over time, they migrate onto the sea surface. I find I can keep tighter control if I'm just GMing, but I usually play in my own games.

One idea I'm still trying to figure out is the two-layer table: putting the sea surface on a second layer of short tables that are themselves placed on top of the lower tables. The idea is that all clutter (and especially drinks and food) can be set on the lower (more stable) tables, and the sea surface is up at about eye level when sitting down. This has never been practical with a cloth sea surface, but I recently switched to interlocking 2' foam tiles, which have enough stiffness to assist in their own suspension. I'm now window-shopping folding cots to use as the upper table. If it's not too expensive, this might actually work…

- Ix

If I had a better place to put the clutter, I'd be willing to impose penalties. However, without side surfaces, the practical effect of penalizing clutter would probably be that none of the markers and measuring tools get used.

- Ix

We use two side tables and a shelf built around the table. Took awhile for muscle memory to kick in but now the table remains clutter free.

We also use the tables when we play large actions outside.

Regards,

J. P. Kelly

Don't most gaming tables look like that regardless of land or naval? I have a small snack table at either end of my table, I use it for rules, charts, drinks etc.

I find that after a few public floggings, the table will be free of clutter.

Years ago our game club had a standing rule. At anytime someone could shout out:
"Aesthetics!"
And all the clutter is pulled off the table…

Since I am 12 to 14 inches taller and 100 pounds heavier than the guys in my group if the Gorilla GM says no clutter then by golly there is no clutter. Game on and have fun but if you mess up the play surface "I keel u".

I think most players would be considerate if you asked them to please keep any drinks and food off the table.

I have a bunch of clipboards I picked up cheap, which I attach any various record sheets or player aides to when handing them out. That tends to help keep players more organized.

Try making a "cheat sheet" of any rules or common charts and have it enlarged at a print shop and mounted on foam-core. You can even get that laminated! That should only cost a few dollars to make. You'll want an easel to set it up on, but sometimes you can luck out and find one at yard-sales or thrift stores, and most craft stores carry them.

With all the high-tec stuff on the market Phones etc. Would it not be nice if rule makers could use them for gaming. As for non-gaming things! I have made my boards, so that is a big No,No.
Be safe
Rory

"Any other suggestions?"

Oh yea….

YouTube link

I tyr to organize each players information on a few sheets of paper and give each player a club board. I also have a set of rails that are 3.5 inches wide that can be attached to the sides of my table to hold dice / drinks etc.

Artists easels can be useful.

Do your players need to keep the rules in-hand?

If so, you may want to either find more-easily-remembered rules or play more often.

This always bugs me as well.

A zone around the combat surface for rules, etc. is a good idea. Separate tables to the sides, or behind the players are even better, if you can't have a shelf system below the playing surface for drinks, measuring devices, etc.

I already have very nice arrangements for compacting the paperwork of naval games into a single folder per player. However, the folder still has to go somewhere, and since it's being referenced all the time, it's usually in front of the player on the table. Same for pens and pencils, dice, rulers, etc.

I'm still chuckling about "-2 for the Cheetos". I'm *so* going to use that….

- Ix

I second the use of a shelf under the edges of the table.

Oooooooo, I like the penalties idea, but as you mention, some players may get a bit turned off by that.

Clipboards, and/or double-sided rules summaries in plastic are good, as are dice cups and rolling areas.

A second lower shelf would be nice, and drink-holders around the periphery, underneath, and out of sight, though that only applies to custom tables.

If you can find short, 2' x 2' endtables, those would be ideal, since you can butt those right up to the main table, along the sides, to store incidentals.

Gave up on this 20 years ago in miniature land games.

I eliminated ALL charts, the need for rule books, all tables, and the dice are in green or brown.

As for snacks and sodas- forget about it.

Clipboards are a great aid -- a real opportunity to keep several sheets together in one convenient place. They help to keep the gameplay area uncluttered, and they also help the player to keep all the needed pieces of paper at hand. It is that second factor, the convenience to the player, that makes them effective on the first factor -- players will CHOOSE to use the clipboards in most cases.

But even the clipboard becomes clutter if there is no designated place to set it -- and that designated place needs to be convenient to the gamers! This is the key … don't try first to "enforce" by fiat or punishment, but instead try first to "encourage" by making the approved placements more convenient to the gamers. Then a gentle chiding/ribbing (combined with pointing out the conveniences) can be quite persuasive.

Side tables are nice, but in my experience "stuff" will still migrate to the game table for the sake of convenience during the game.

So I usually put the "side table" concept onto the gaming table. I provide about 1 foot of non-gaming area on each end of the table, so each team has an area for keeping their "stuff" at hand. Then I usually provide about 1/2 foot of non-gaming area on each side of the table, so that drinks can be set down while measuring, and tape-measures can be set down while rolling dice, etc.

It' not perfect, but it seems to really help.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Best solution my group adopted was to have a border (about 10" deep) around the main playing area. That's where the charts, logs, etc live (for the most part). But, frankly, I really don't see it as that big a deal. I mean, what EXACTLY are we doing here? Playing a game (that needs all those pesky charts, dice, etc) or building a diorama? I think we're supposed to PLAYING THE GAME…

And if you start penalizing players for _HORRORS!_ having an 'untidy' game board, you'll soon have no players…

I mean, what EXACTLY are we doing here? Playing a game (that needs all those pesky charts, dice, etc) or building a diorama?

Both. I see little point in playing with miniatures unless there is a diorama for them to inhabit. There are plenty of board games and computer games with better simulation value. The "living diorama" is a huge part of what makes miniatures gaming appealing to me, and I'm not alone. Most miniatures players like the toys at least as much as the game, and the nicer the table looks, the more appealing the game is.

And if you start penalizing players for _HORRORS!_ having an 'untidy' game board, you'll soon have no players…

That worries me too. Penalties are a harsh tactic, more of a stopgap or last resort than a good policy. I sometimes make penalties that are largely humorous – like a DRM penalty for rolling the wrong color of dice – but without any real teeth. I want to be a gaming buddy, not a gaming cop.

I think most people will accept household rules about keeping food and drink away from the precious miniatures, but penalizing gaming impedimenta is just counter-productive and likely to foster resentment. A "no clutter" rule needs to be assisted by a naturally clutter-reducing physical environment.

- Ix

Photo-record your game, turn by turn and let your opponent know this is your intention; clutter keeps to a minimum of essential dice and markers in most cases so that the pics look nice. I say dice, because it's always nice to have that feel of hurling four 12" dice downrange at your target and even nicer I think when you can see the four sixes in the photo! (yeah, right)

Side tables are great for set-up, placing casualties, etc. But they need to be large enough that you can comfortably put your figure cases on there, as well as models, dice, tape measures, templates, rosters, army books, rulebooks, etc. If the space starts to become cramped then you'll find things over-flowing on to the gaming table.

Wall charts are great also. Take a magnetic notice board and an A3 printout of the quick-reference-sheet for whatever game you're using, and stick it up. If a player doesn't need to open his rulebook to check something, he's less likely to leave that rulebook on the table.

There's always going to be a certain amount of clutter, but you can keep it to a minimum.

I found that setting up TV tray tables next to the gaming table allows for a no clutter battlefield! I also hate gaming clutter. Also a shoe box used for dice rolling prevents "accidents" and preserves my painted miniatures…

The bane of miniature wargaming aesthetics – dice and paper.

B

I've never had a suitable playing space but if I did I would print out all the key tables, combat results charts etc and put them on the walls.

No, no, no – the walls are where the campaign maps go!

:-)
- Ix

here was my answer for paper clutter. The ships are 10mm ACW. The ship base has holes for battleship pegs for various ship stats and tape lines for fire arcs. Made for the Iron and Fire rules.

Anybody have kids involved with playing musical instruments? They use lightweight fold-up metal music stands. They run around $10 USD-15. They are available with clips on them to hold open their lesson books. These clips would work for holding charts and tables in place. There is also an optional shelf that clips onto the bottom that would hold pencils, dice, rulers and maybe even a small tape measure. The down side is that they are lightweight and could be knocked over if not paying attention to where you are going.

Here is a lightweight version from Hamilton Music Stands:
link

There is also a more substantial (And more expensive) version:
link

You can also get other options like clip on lights if needed.

Music stands are a very cool idea. Good suggestion.

The feet look like they'd get in the way, so it might be nicer to bolt/clip the stand onto the table edge somehow. Does such a thing exist?

- Ix

There are music stand made with clamps rather than legs and feet for just such a purpose.

link

There is even one that you can strap to your wrist, made for Flute players in marching bands. LOL!

link

I found that using a set of wooden folding tv trays to hold rules, charts, dice, measuring devices etc. keeps my gaming table clutter free. Also rolling the dice into a large box has prevented many accidents involving miniatures getting a direct hit by over eager dice rolling!