"A-4E involved in Air to Air Aug 16th 1966 what unit(s)?" Topic

Does anyone know what A-4 Units where involved in Air-to-Air combat on Aug 16 1966?

I have read short accounts of the clash in different histories, and the Red Baron Vol 1 report. However by design the Red Baron report is anonymous. The fight included A-4Es, from date three carriers on line with A-4E where Constellation (VA-155), Oriskany (VA-163, VA-164) and FDR (VA-12, VA-72).

The mission was seek and destroy, the four A-4s found a train and were strafing it. A pair of the A-4s expended all their ammo, and headed for the coast. The remaining pair of A-4s, called a pair of A-4E on Iron Hand orbiting off the coast to help finish off the train.

In the process a pair of MiG bounced the strafing A-4s, the MiGs chased off the A-4s with no loss.

Anyone heard of this fight and who was involved?

Not sure which unit it was from, but one A-4 shot down a Mig with an air-to-ground rocket.

Beyond that, I don't believe there were any A-4s in air-to-air combat, other than those serving as targets for the Migs. Sure, there might have been a few that "ixed it up a bit", but no kills that were allowed, other than the one mentioned above.

Yeah it was a no loss encounter, but it was an interesting match, 4 A-4s vs 2 MiG-17s. Historically they swirled a bit the MiGs shot and missed, the A-4s screwed for the coast, and MiGs did not follow having saved the train.

Been away from airplanes for a while so apologies behind a little bit behind.

The volume III RB Report has some info a bit lower down which may help you refine the search a little bit. The OPREP came from CTG 77.6 which indicates a single carrier was involved (or at least a single carrier reported the incident). Interesting that the BARCAP doesn't get a mention

Don't know the rotation of carriers from the March assignment of CTG77.6 which was Kitty Hawk

During the week of 2 to 8 March, combat operations were conducted by HANCOCK (TG 77.3), TICONDEROGA (TG 77.5), KITTY HAWK (TG 77.6), and RANGER (TG 77.4). Results of strikes in North Vietnam were good during several days of improved weather. SAM activity increased with an apparent firing as far south as Ha Tinh. Three SAM's were fired at RANGER aircraft on 4 March, but without damage. KITTY HAWK conducted in-country support operations from Dixie Station through 5 March with the airwing flying an average of 100 sorties a day. TICONDEROGA relieved her on 6 March, and KITTY HAWK in turn relieved HANCOCK at Yankee Station. On 5 March a HANCOCK A-IH crashed when it received a direct hit from AA fire while on a bombing run in North Vietnam. There was no possibility of survival. On the same day a KITTY HAWK F-4B was lost during in-country operations, presumably to ground fire. The crew ejected, and both pilot and RIO were safely recovered by helo.

There is no operational summary for August 66 which is a pity

There is no august 66 summary in the NHHC operational archives but I did find one elsewhere. The 16 August contact was from the Oriskany

MIG encounters during August were relatively infrequent. On 16 August, however, a flight of four A-4Es from Oriskany was attacked by two MIG-17s over North Vietnam. The A-4s were making multiple attack runs on a train from various headings and altitudes, when one of the pilots noticed the MIGs approaching low from the northwest in trail formation. The A-4s, which had expended their ammunition, made a rapid descent to the southeast, when two of them were attacked by the MIGs firing 37mm cannon from six o'clock. The A-4Es out-turned the MIGs, which soon broke of f and departed to the northwest. No air-to-air missiles or rockets were fired in the encounter and no MIG warnings were heard. Strike aircraft from Oriskany again sighted a flight of MIGs on 23 August near Haiphong, but no attacks were attempted by either side.

Ha! I was betting on the 'O-Boat'! Where did you find that info? It also narrows the squadrons to VA-163 or VA-164, thank you.

Hi Tom,

The NHHC operational archives have the 1966 highlight reports up until July 1966 here link

As the NHHC were out of resources they approached other communities to help and these guys mrfa2.org/NHC.htm assisted by uploading some more. As far as I can tell it is only the 1966 reports which are available and as HTML and not PDF.

I have also found all three volumes of the RB study in PDF which is interesting reading.

Hope that helps.

The Oriskany Deck logs for 16 July also confirm the carrier as 77.6

Where did you find RB2&3? I'm looking for RB 2, for the actions from '67 to the end of '68. I've read RB1

Volume 1
link

Volume 2 – F105 events only
link

Volume 3
link

There is one DTIC work which has all three volumes in one PDF but that is over 1000 pages and I have had problem searching inside it and find the individual volumes easier to navigate.

You want volume III probably not vol II. The vol II is F105 events only for the period prior to Mar 67. All events past that date including all the Navy non F-8 engagements are in Vol III

Ahh, ok those are all Project Red Baron 1. It comes 5 parts you can get the entire thing here:

PDF link

But thank you so much for your help.