| Knight of St John | 31 May 2014 10:26 p.m. PST |
Why is Piltown ignored in most books about the war of the roses. Is it becouse it's in the Irish Pale or becouse none of the big players were there.
Also in an old issue of war Wargames Ilistrated ,issue 56, it says many soldiers refused to fight becouse it was a Monday, is their any truth in that. |
| MajorB | 01 Jun 2014 4:30 a.m. PST |
Yes, Ireland was essentially just a side show to the WOTR. The main reason why it is almost ignroed is that we know very little about it.
link |
| The Red Baron | 01 Jun 2014 7:09 a.m. PST |
For much the same reason as Twt Hill* it probably wasn't considered important enough to the Victorians who popularised the WotR, and as MajorB says information is scarce. * their were a number of smaller skirmishes that don't tend to make the main battles lists, plus a bunch of sieges that tend to be forgotten too |
| Knight of St John | 01 Jun 2014 8:32 a.m. PST |
A big thanks to both of you. I have read quite a few books about the War of the Roses and never heard of the battle at Twt hill before, very interesting. |
| John the OFM | 01 Jun 2014 9:24 a.m. PST |
Because only Irish got killed in this battle.  |
| Knight of St John | 01 Jun 2014 11:44 a.m. PST |
But John would they and the English have seen them as being Irish, and foreign, or fellow countrymen under the English king |
| John the OFM | 01 Jun 2014 1:40 p.m. PST |
I can't explain Irish national feelings today, and you expect me to explain then in 1485??? |
| Knight of St John | 01 Jun 2014 4:39 p.m. PST |
Fair enough. I think one of the things I find so interesting about the War of the Roses is the fact there is much we don't know about what they did. |
| Martin Rapier | 02 Jun 2014 2:12 a.m. PST |
I am not sure modern concepts of national identity have much validity in Medieval Europe, and even the 'states' which developed in the following centuries were dynastic rather than nations. Anyway, Piltown is covered in as much detail as the paucity of primary sources allows in Richard Brooks exhaustive 'Battlefields of Britain' and make the point that the WotR touched only lightly upon Ireland. It does discuss the issue of fighting, or not, on Mondays. The Yorkists won the battle:) |
| MajorB | 02 Jun 2014 2:19 a.m. PST |
The Yorkists won the battle:) Except that they were only Yorkists by association, not joined by blood ties. It seems that the rivalries in Ireland simply adopted a "me too" approach to the conflict in England. |
| brass1 | 27 Sep 2020 7:50 p.m. PST |
Martin Rapier, Thanks for the tip about Battlefields of Britain and Ireland (please note that it contains the more important country as well). As an Irish ferry captain said to my father while giving him directions to Waterford: "Yuh'll drive straight roit up that hill and yuh'ull come to a pub and there'll be some fellas there and yuh'll ask'em how t'git t'Piltown." And they'll say "Why t'hell d'yuh wahnt t'git t'Piltown?" An yuh'll say " 'ts nuhn'ah yer damn' business why Oi wahnt t'git t'Piltown!" The directions ended soon after that and he bought a map. Now I'll be able to find out why anyone wanted to go to Piltown. LT |
| Warspite1 | 04 Oct 2020 5:19 a.m. PST |
I have replied to this on the Wars of the Roses forum, cross-posted to the Medieval Discussion group: TMP link |
takes a look at flexible roads made from long-lasting flexible resin.