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"Fleet Scale Star Trek Miniatures" Topic

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Gen Con So Cal 2005

Our Man in Southern California once again reports on GenCon California-style...

2,576 hits since 29 May 2014
©1994-2020 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

ANDREW LAWTON29 May 2014 2:52 a.m. PST

I Got fed up with a lack of decent 1/4000 scale Trek Minis so I scratch built a load and made Molds.

About 80% of my Trek stuff is now own produced Minis.

I'm also working on a fast game system that allows battles with upto 100 ships or more a side.


79thPA Supporting Member of TMP29 May 2014 3:31 a.m. PST

That is quite impressive.

ANDREW LAWTON29 May 2014 4:04 a.m. PST

My Inspiration was all the CGI games models I made when I ran a site called FLEETDOCK13 for the PC Game Starfleet command.

I have about 300 designs that I could print in 3D from a 3D printer to make masters.

Well soon I get a payout In Industrial Injury compensation.

Then I will be buying the equipment ( A 3D Printer and Set of Resin and metal centricast machines) to go into production, When that happens I will put up A kickstarter for the New Range. It won't just include Trek Style Minis but a range of other Designs.

Watch this space… No Pun.

elsyrsyn29 May 2014 4:17 a.m. PST

I would imagine the cost of the equipment will be nothing, compared to the cost of the licence(s).


Captain Avatar29 May 2014 5:52 a.m. PST

Love the base station. Nothing out there compares.

jpattern229 May 2014 7:17 a.m. PST

I would imagine the cost of the equipment will be nothing, compared to the cost of the licence(s).

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian29 May 2014 7:44 a.m. PST

I'd wait for the C&D before investing in the machinery. There's a reason why you don't see every other manufacturer selling a Trek-like line and why you don't see garage manufacturers splash their new stuff here. I doubt Kickstarter will touch this.

Captain Gideon29 May 2014 8:49 a.m. PST

Andrew how did you make the Doomsday Machine?

billclo29 May 2014 9:02 a.m. PST

I was thinking how long it would be before Paramount's legion of lawyers showed up to play patty cake with the OP's head for even trying it.

Not that I would narc or anything, but an easy Google search turns up stuff like the OP's post readily enough.

If he can get licensed, awesome though. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that due to the likely high cost.

Lion in the Stars29 May 2014 9:35 a.m. PST

The 3d ships were created for Starfleet Command. Isn't that the ADB/Franz Joseph license as opposed to the Paramount TV&movies license?

billclo29 May 2014 11:11 a.m. PST

Good question. I imagine Jean from ADB could answer that question.

TimHerr29 May 2014 11:36 a.m. PST

Those are amazing. Very nice to see that Chandley and Baker from the FASA days. Beautiful work.

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian29 May 2014 2:12 p.m. PST

If I understand it correctly (after looking at about 15 "histories of the franchise" sites), essentially (and I could be wrong on any or all of this):

CBS Television Studios currently owns the overall Brand as well as anything related to over-the-air broadcasting (TV series, etc).

Viacom Via Paramount currently owns the rights to the existing movies and has license to the rights to future movies from CBS Television Studios, and licenses ADB's game and use of the brand in the narrow capacity of the game setting because Paramount Television (a previous iteration of the Paramount company before Viacom got involved) owned the whole brand when the license was first let. They also in the pre-Viacom days licensed FASA's RPG.

Thus, in my understanding, right now CBS can license anything and Paramount can license things that are movie related.

It is a very messy relationship between CBS and Viacom, and my understanding is there are issues as to who owns the rights to certain things, such as the likeness of the Reliant type ship, since it was seen in both television episodes and in movies.

Daniel29 May 2014 4:07 p.m. PST

All that really matters is a strong Cardassia…

Gear Pilot29 May 2014 4:35 p.m. PST

Nice work Andrew!

Sargonarhes29 May 2014 5:31 p.m. PST

Haven't I seen a lot of Star Trek stuff at various scales on Shapeway?

How do these guys get away with this?

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian29 May 2014 5:36 p.m. PST

How do these guys get away with this?

You can get away with anything until you get caught.

MacrossMartin29 May 2014 5:43 p.m. PST

Regardless of the legalities, the pics are enough to make me want to haul out my Trek fleets again. Thanks for showing them off!

Dynaman878930 May 2014 5:09 a.m. PST

One way they get away with it is not using the words "Star Trek Ships", the lawyers get right on that phrase. Lots of these ships look like old FASA RPG designs – rights on those are probably even messier then the original designs.

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP30 May 2014 10:17 a.m. PST

Nice work!

Captain Gideon30 May 2014 2:30 p.m. PST

Regarding the FASA minis did FASA have the rights to the minis and designs or did someone else own the rights?

And if FASA did own the rights then if someone makes copies of ships like the Baker or Chandley who will take the person to court?

Since FASA doesn't excist anymore what's to stop anyone to make copies of ships that FASA made or didn't make?

For example look at all the people on EBAY who sell Star Trek type ships they've been doing it for sometime now and they keep on selling.

billclo30 May 2014 4:23 p.m. PST

"And if FASA did own the rights then if someone makes copies of ships like the Baker or Chandley who will take the person to court?"

It could be REALLY expensive to find out, should you be sued. Lawyers are hideously expensive. I would suspect that Paramount would be involved somehow, and they are a multi-billion dollar corporation that you have virtually no hope of winning against.

Captain Gideon30 May 2014 5:19 p.m. PST

I wanted to know who really owns the rights is it FASA or Paramount?

And believe me I don't have the talent to make copies of FASA Star Trek ships but I wish I could so I can increase my FASA collection of ships.

billclo30 May 2014 5:56 p.m. PST

If you look at Wikipedia, (yeah, not a source I normally consider credible), it looks to me like the company still exists, so it's possible they could go after IP infringers if they so chose to.

And here:

Captain Gideon30 May 2014 6:27 p.m. PST

So it's a shadow of it's former self from what I see.

Dynaman878930 May 2014 6:30 p.m. PST

FASA had rights through an agreement with Paramount, so I think that neither FASA NOR Paramount can use those designs without the consent of both parties. That is always the problem with licensing the IP of another for a game.

Captain Gideon30 May 2014 8:39 p.m. PST

The problem is that FASA lost those rights which stopped them from doing anymore Star Trek stuff of any kind.

ANDREW LAWTON08 Jun 2014 5:14 p.m. PST

Various People own the rights to Fasa's old models and still produce them having purchased the Masters and moulds, since there not cannon to TREK Lore, Its immaterial.

Licence only matters when producing something cannon that you want to advertise as for example The Uss Enterprise from Star trek and sell it on the back of that.

If its licensed or not You , I or Joe Boggs can make a model, Picture or Cgi model that looks like but isn't a copy of a fictional work because the version you make is substantially different, if it's your artistic Interpretation or version its yours, So no one can sell it but You, which you have the right to do.

If you then call it the Federated Republic Starship Enterprise again it's still Yours, the FRSS Enterprise. From the United federated Space republic, NRN-1701 (navy register number 1701), Now sue me if I made a model with a disk and 3 tubes sticking from it, I reckon you would fail in any court, Why Copyright covers duplicates of original works and likenesses To a degree, not another's Interpretation but exact duplicates or Likenesses so make it different enough and you have made something new!.

since you're not selling it under a trademarked Logo claiming it to be based on the other person's work you can't be done for Trademark or Licence infringement either.

It's like Dodgy Levi-jean Lookalikes if there not being advertised and sold as such there just another product.

models for Pc games are another thing, We (my little gang of madders) made a huge number of CGI models that looked a bit like but were not "exact" copies of anything (so no copyright infringement)they were our "Artistic" impressions that made them all OUR copyright.

Now we approached said company with an idea to do a Paid for download of the whole thing and make some money after all I figured it would go down well with said company, BUT we simply got told to %%%% off, that all we would make would be the cost of a nice meal at a cheap restaurant a mid shouts that we would be sued if we sold our mod , by who nothing was a exact copy or likeness, it was all our original artistic work, you see you can't copyright an interpretation.

So we put it up free of charge with a disclaimer for Paramount/Cbs's link to the whole thing.
net result , Nearly as many downloads of the moods were made in total as 2/3rd of the total sales of the game! the game went on to 3 new versions None looked like the original TV series!
#when we updated the models for the editions they were downloaded a second and 3rd time nearly as much as the first time, all for a licence it would have made a good amount of money for all.

Notwithstanding the fact the Pc game company was actively supporting the community with app software to make adding content to the game easy.

OVER 300 cgi Starships!.. WOW

Well now I'm doing all my Projects Generically.. stuff licences its all going to be my work.


yes I'm writing a new game one that's fast fun and works with Massive fleets of up to 100 Miniature Starship's aside in any Universe Be it Trek, Star wars, Galactica whatever, the key with it is it dosn't matter what the model ships look like, Oh and there will be tons of Stuff on Building Space terrain out of sensible and affordable materials scratch building making your own moulds, Casting and even printing (with a 3D printer) your fleets!.


Sound good?

ANDREW LAWTON08 Jun 2014 6:08 p.m. PST

I made the DOOMSDAY MACHINE out of Cushion foam , then soaked it in acrylic paint (cheep reeves kids acrylics) it dries "ROCK" hard and Lighter than a feather Literally its how I make the Asteriod's too, Then I finished it with the same paints , I made one 30 years ago by the same method along with about 50 Asteriods,

I've been professionally making models about 35 years,

I gave it to a friend who still has it in his spaceships collection, Like I said Rock hard and about £10.00 GBP tom make better then a 3" long resin lump any day.

The Trek Minis are an example of what I can do, and are a big part of my Hobby for the last 30 years,

Ive been wargaming about 40 years and thought I really should write down some of what I've written in note form over that time.

the Big roll out will be the Fleet wars Minis I'm doing, Very Unique , very original Pictures of the masters will be up soon, when I'm happy with them, The book stands around 100 pages so fare and I havn't done the modelling section yet.

When the books ready I will put it on Wargames Vault for download, If its sucessful A printed version and addons may follow, But definatly the Miniatures.

Kickstarter Maybe, but I don't need it yet.

Captain Gideon08 Jun 2014 7:22 p.m. PST

Thanks Andrew for letting me know how you made your Doomsday Machine.

My friend who's making my Doomsday Machine is building it from the inside starting with a frame.

I'll be posting pictures once my Doomsday Machine is finished and I think the best thing about it is that it'll light up in the mouth area.

One other thing regarding FASA Star Trek gaming can you remember just how many FASA Star Trek games you've done over the years?

Also did you have a favorite game that you played?

ANDREW LAWTON09 Jun 2014 5:29 a.m. PST

Lion in the Stars

The 3d ships were created for Starfleet Command. Isn't that the ADB/Franz Joseph license as opposed to the Paramount TV&movies license?

The Answer is BOTH SFCs full title was STAR TREK STARFLEET COMMAND licences from Both Paramount and ADB you see ADBs SFB was completely non-Cannon nothing to do with Cannon Trek at all, ADB just use some elements of Trek with Paramounts persmission (Since Paramount owns CBS or visa – versa no conflict) Hence the Name STARFLEET BATTLES ( not STAR TREK STARFLEET BATTLES )
otherwise they would have to pay for a Licence.

STARFLEET COMMAND was based on the STAR TREK Movies and STAR TREK Next Gen using A set of PC Game mechaincs based on the STARFLEET BATTLES, that frankly was poor in bot respects , A lot of the Die Hard T.O.S. TREK fans Hated the look, and were not impressed with the look so since the games developers Taldren (at the time)were actively supporting Gamer add-ins by the gamer community (as long as the mods were free to all and had the appropriate IP permission Disclaimers in the zip files) a large portion of the Games fans got to re-modelling it to the old look.

End of story.

Until some bright spark saw $ signs and wanted to sell it! amazingly at first buy trying to steal it all from us the fans who had created it!
I didn't like the situation at all but went along with the idea approaching the correct people.

All I got was BUL* Bleeped text and Insults.

SO I put an Interlectual property ban of my own on all our work adding a new disclaimer to the files that it could not be used by anyone without our (The mod makers) Permission and took it to a copyrighting firm in the town I live in.. So no-one could rip us off!.

That was about 12 years ago.

ANDREW LAWTON09 Jun 2014 5:45 a.m. PST

Myself and My Friends (About 30 or so gamers)dropped SFB when the company head sent me the Shocking and insulting E-mails, Literally dropped into the bin!, Made a big hole in it too and was the best place for it IMHO.

one thing I would say, As a game it was the most tedious and boring Game book I have ever read.

Feeding my head into a mincer would have been better in hind sight.

Ironically though I still play SFC with friends online, with all the T.O.S mods installed!…

ANDREW LAWTON09 Jun 2014 5:54 a.m. PST

elsyrsyn, jpattern2,

No Licence needed as I'm not selling anything "Trek" based Like I said the models are an example of what I can achieve , when I have My range of ST models done They will be unique own designs.. well if Some happen too look a bit like something else that's a shame..

My SCI-FI FLEET WARS Wargame Rulebook is to be truly generic and fast,

It will contain loads of pictures of models from my collections of star ships from all genera's including my own!

Play test games so far have been battles of 60 to 70 ships per side with a game result in about 2-3 hours! basically an evenings game.

ANDREW LAWTON09 Jun 2014 6:16 a.m. PST

Captain Gideon

Cool, hobby gaming is all about the Fun you get from the Game and Minatures.

It Will Be nice to see your DDM when its ready.

As far as Fasa Trek my favorite was FASAs STAR TREK RPG, I still have all the original books 1st and 2nd editions in mint condition in my Library of gaming books, and as PDF Downloads on my pad.

I still play it with friends from time to time and am a member of quite a few pen and paper gaming groups and chat/BBS forums online,

My Favorite scenario for FASAs STAR TREK RPG ..

"A Doomsday like any other!"

The scenario adds greatly to the DDMs mystery, Great fun seeing each different group of players decide how to stop it, the best involved Romulan plasma bolts!

I would never sell it but you can find it all as PDFs on Free Book Download sites like SCRIBD for download.

ANDREW LAWTON09 Jun 2014 10:02 a.m. PST

I just added a Picture of a new casting of a Patrol corvette I have sculpted.


Part time gamer17 Dec 2019 12:43 a.m. PST

Does anyone remember a set, (ugh getting older -CRS). IIRC it was "TASK FORCE ELITE".
Basically it was Fed, Kling, Rom & Gorn. 3 of the same ships per pk (Gorn 2).

I called them "the 5000 series", it was the product No. on the pkg. and not concerned w/ scale at the time.
The ship types per faction were: The Fed Con, Kling D7, Rom WB and Gorn CA.
Being pretty good at simple conversions I went to Town!
Now have my own small task forces of DN, CA, CL & DD's. All conversions based on the original mini's.

Any chance anyone recall seeing them online in the last few yrs?

Lesson 1: if you ever find something you think is "Really Cool";
KEEP one of the old pkg's, so 'when/if' you ever want to try & find more, you've got the right info.

Great collection. And IMO "Green" is just Not Klingon. I repainted my MM, Vor'Cha AC's in Grey w Lt. grey dry brush. To match the (larger) D7's, (size wise) seemed to be more DN to me.

But If ya ever come back to this, I'd really like to know;
Where did you get your BSG Battlestars?

Ghostrunner17 Dec 2019 6:29 a.m. PST

The 'starter set' from Task Force Games was (I think):

Federation CA
Klingon D7
Klingon F5
Romulan Warbird
2x Tholian Patrol Cruisers

Could be wrong – I vaguely remember there being a Gorn DD in there.

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