"Russian artillery, green or red?" Topic

I've seen green and red for Russian artillery of the SYW and GNW. Any suggestions?

Red with black metalwork. Green was Napoleonic. Just Googled it and there's a post on here from Stephen Summerfield that says 1795 was the change date.

I've also read that natural wood was used.

Thanks!

Second the red carriages, and the occasional natural wood (ocher) colors. As a rule I paint the field pieces in national colors, but often use natural wood for the positional or siege artillery as they can then be used for either side, cutting my costs for those expensive castings.

Natural wood was not used by the Russians for their field or battalion artillery. They used until the accession of Tsar Paul red lead which is a orangey red with black fittings.

Stephen

Speak of the devil…. ;-) Always nice to have it from someone who's really done the research. :-)

My decision on carriage colors for WSS and GNW is as follows:

British: Gray w black iron
French: Red with black iron
Dutch: Dull Red with black iron
Danish: Red with yellow iron
Prussian: White with black iron
Bavarian: Yellow or natural wood with black iron
Austrian: Yellow or natural wood with black iron
Russian: Red with black iron
Saxony: Black or dark gray with black iron
Swedish: Blue, or Blue gray with yellow iron
Spanish: Red with black iron

Two different colours for Russian GNW gun carriages are known. They are reported to have been red with yellow metal in 1700 and 1710, and green with black metal ca 1707.

The red gun carriages with black metal came later and are not known to have been used during the Great Northern War.

Martinsson, do you have a source you could share?

My source is the Swedish version of this book by Lars-Eric Höglund, Åke Sallnäs and Alexander Bespalov:

Excellent source! Red with yellow metal will certainly look good! Luckily I'm just starting on my GNW forces. I imagine that a mix of both the red and green wouldn't be far off the mark as well.

Red with yellow metal also has the added bonus that you can use the same cannons for both Russians and Danes when you build GNW forces.

Some contemporary paintings of the Russians in 1790 show Apple Green trails with Red Wheels. The diorama's that I have visited in Poland also show this.
Red however in the SYW.

Tsarevitch Paul when he had the Gatchina Model Army had green carriages. The Russian Army did not. I have seen no pictorial evidence for Green carriages.
Stephen

Interesting to read your comments guys.I have read the following:
Red up until 1709
Green 1709 to 1763
red 1763 to 1795
green thereafter……….

Now two things, firstly I have read it, forgot to note it and have forgotten where.
Secondly, personally I do not think that in a country the size of Russia with an army the size that it had during the period that all departments would have had carriages of the same colour. Am I wrong to assume this?

Don't know if it's relevant, but some years ago I was working in Salzburg and visited the castle. The old Imperial gun carriages were painted red with black ironwork, and the wheels had red rims, black iron tyres, and alternate red and white spokes.

Repiqueone,

The British had red up until the mid-18th Century; not sure of the exact year, but grey was F&IW/SYW at the earliest – definitely AWI though (nice to see you didn't put "blue-grey" which is a bit of a wargamerism).

Bavarians definitely had red prior to the 1720s, maybe longer. This is based on surviving carriages in their army museum in Ingoldstadt. I think it's also shown on a contemporary mural of the siege of Vienna in one of their palaces.

Spanish appear to have had natural wood up to at least the SYW; I think they went mid-blue when they adopted the Gribeauval system (again, Dr Summerfield can confirm or correct).

To add to your list, Savoy had mid-blue – possibly not dissimilar to the Prussian colour during the Napoleonic era – with black fittings.

Father Grigori,

I'm sure Dr Summerfield will have the proper info on that, but it sounds like it's from one of the "Kreis" contingents, rather than an Austrian carriage.

Dear Naximum
The British did not use Red as the colour of the their carriages. It was always a medium grey made from lamb-black and white lead. Grey carriages were used as far back as the ECW. Alas the idea of red comes from a misunderstanding that there were other forms of lead oxide other than red. Blue grey is a mistake made by a number of US museums who were using photographs from the Royal Armouries that had not been using colour correction on photographs.

The Spanish adopted a mid-blue/deep sky blue from the 1770s when they adopted the Gribeauval System.

Savoy also used the deep sky blue. This was more blue than the Prussian blue. Different pigment.
Stephen