" Whats with Bonnie and Clyde Day on TMP" Topic

Im always interested in the various battle anniversary commemorations and theyve often led me to several web searches for more info.

But for me at least I dont see any direct relevance to having Bonnie and Clyde on the front page of a wargame miniatures site. Has anyone actually gamed their story

I don't go in for the pop hype of them being some kind of culture heros. Personally I just see two wasted lives that murdered some innocent people. I believe the case helped the founding of the FBI and they have become some kind of culture icons in North America but personally I don't see the sense in placing their image here.

Don't get me wrong: Im not up in arms about this…after all this is Bills site and if he wants to post the image there so be it…

I watched a documentary on a serial killer on YouTube once and after I read some of the comments…I was completely disgusted; basically 50% of the comments that I read were from fans of the killer…Im not saying this is the same thing but it made me a little more sensitive to what I perceive to be a cult following of murderers… including the two mentioned

Was actually more interested in what peoples opinion are over something like this rather than it being some kind of protest…

Pulp fiction? And what makes a war a war anyway, to qualify for wargaming in this case. But I have seriously wondered. When does homicide achieve the loftier designation of 'war'?

Today marks the anniversary of their bullet riddled vehicle and their end.

Basically, their ate lot of people that game the gangster period. And much of that period is basically nothing more that a war between one gang and another gang, gangs and police, and gangs or individuals against establishments like banks, who often were blamed for the situation our country was in.

When does homicide achieve the loftier designation of 'war'?

I'll take a stab at that one. When it's part of a larger program between organized entities, for example a gang war.

"When does homicide achieve the loftier designation of 'war'

A very good question and one asked many times in the country of my birth…my family were members of the Irish Republican Army fighting a British occupying force for years with one joining to fight for the British in the WWI. Gassed in the Somme half dead he was taken prisoner only to return from a German prison into a British one because they now viewed him as a trained danger to the crown. Which war was more legit

With all the arguments defining what constitutes a legit war there is no possibility of any reasonable premise supporting this situation as anything other than meaningless murder.
Well meaningless murder is how I would describe most wars

Skirmish level gangster games are a pretty solidly established niche of miniatures gaming.

It's pulp fiction. Have fun with it, sheesh!

"When does homicide achieve the loftier designation of 'war'

Its a question of scale really.

Often times the headings are just moments in history, not necessarily wartime history. And not every miniature game is a war game, though I grant you the vast majority are.

There are no "rules of war" for gang "warfare". That's the main/only difference I see. "Civilized" people, i.e. legit nations, make up rules to bring to their oversized knife fights. Rules in wartime are made in peacetime and make no sense in wartime. You are trying to win by any means available. Atrocities will be punished by the victors, e.g. Bonnie and Clyde….

When does homicide achieve the loftier designation of 'war'?

"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand, From Thoughts of a Biologist, 1938.

This is to remind us all that Bonnie was not as hot as Faye Dunnaway, nor was Clyde as studly as Warren Beatty.

They favored the BAR. Does that count?

"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."

"Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

— Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, USMC

Guys I must admit I see this in a whole new light. Thanks for giving me a whole new perspective on this…

BTW Im referring to the OFMs and Iron Ivans comments ;)

IMO very interesting and intelligent views

Iron Ivan, the BAR or the Thompson?

Sundance I think that they used both. As stated above by Miniature Ships, the era of Post WW I and 1920's gang war fare brought on in large part due to Prohibition and the lucrative illegal alcohol black market in the United States plus the plethora of bank robbers during the Depression all combine to make for a compelling conflict that one can war game. Add to this mix all the iconic Hollywood movies that mythologies the era.

Yeah I was surprised when I read their story earlier that their weapon of choice was the Browning Automatic Rifle

Clyde's BAR…cut down…..

It's symbolic of all the controversies that we have here….somebody ends up full of bullet holes…..figuratively. Or the car looks like a recent battle my Soviets had with German HMGs….

Maybe we should have a poll to see if we should institute a method to block the graphic at the top of the page -- some sort of header-stifle or masthead-stifle.

Dillinger also favored the BAR.

Here is the US we have a number pf psychopaths who somehow ended up as folk heroes. Bonnie and Clyde, Pretty Boy Floyd, Jesse James, Billy the Kid, etc.

Kansas author the late Earl Thompson had an interesting take on Bonnie and Clyde he talks about them and their compatriots in the opening pages of his acclaimed and best selling novel A Garden of Sand.

He thinks they were quintessentialy Scots Irish heroic figures in the Protestant tradition. I'm not well placed to comment but I can say Thompson was a convincing lad who came up the hard way and who knew his own. Maybe for poor country folk robbed blind by banks and speculators Bonnie and Clyde looked like resistance or at least defiance?

Saw the actual car they died in. Will always renember my daughter's comment…" did they have to shoot them that many times?"

Apparently Bonnie was also pretty handy with the BAR too. From the one documentary I watched on them, they shot their way out of some situations that were all but straight up firefights. They died in one too, so there's that.

Yep, Ivan. 80lb Bonnie was profieicent with the BAR

There's a new mini-series about the happy couple starting soon on Foxtel here in Oz.

Has anyone actually gamed their story

Yes. .45 Adventure dedicated an entire issue of Thrilling Expeditions Quarterly to them. IIRC, there are 6-7 linked scenarios all about B&C, including historical info.

link