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"Perry's 23rd Royal Welsh Fusiliers" Topic


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1,610 hits since 28 Dec 2004
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BlackWatch28 Dec 2004 9:03 a.m. PST

Hi all,

does anybody know how to paint 2 sets of AWI 23rd Royal Welsh Fusiliers regiment in "roundabouts" from Perry brothers?

I have these superb sets but haven't information about features of regiment's uniform (colour of feathers on hats, belts, trousers and so on).

Please help me with information.

Thanks,

Mikhail

sgt bob28 Dec 2004 9:46 a.m. PST

as an AWI reenactor who traded shots with the 23rd RWF light coy for 12 years i would suggest this "uk" website ,the "usa" site is under re-construction

geocities.com/the23rdfoot

bob

BlackWatch28 Dec 2004 10:09 a.m. PST

Hi bob,

thanks for answer, I've already investigated this site of course...
Firstly, these guys reconstuct only light company of 23rd. secondly I didnt find any info about belts (was they black or white for batallion companies in this regiment?) and about rolls that soldiers wear over left shoulders. What colour should it be?

Regrads,
Mikhail

John the OFM28 Dec 2004 10:24 a.m. PST

"Normal" line units had white belts. Only Highlanders had black belts. As the unit looks more and more "campaigny", one might assume that the pipeclay is the first item discarded, and let the belts fade to a leather shade. As for blanket rolls, mine are vari-colored, what with their being blankets. Greyish, all shades, possibly with colored stripes at the ends. Other equipment should be as if they were in dress.

BlackWatch28 Dec 2004 10:31 a.m. PST

Thank You for full answer, John!

Are feathers on hats white or black?

Mikhail

Personal logo ACWBill Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2004 10:34 a.m. PST

Perry has a nice site with lots of color photos. This may help as they do a fairly nice job of painting although they are not entirely accurate. Also, there a various and sundry Osprey and other books on the subject. I agree with OFM that blanket rolls should vary from soldier to soldier. Some of these should be acquired "quilts" and such. Standard issue military wool blankets may be gray initially but fade very quickly to a butternut color as in ACW Confederate wool. I disagree with OFM on one issue. The soldier and his pipe clay ne'er will part. The soldier's personal paraphanlia would be the last thing with which they would part.

PS, aren't those Perry Figures beautiful?

Bill Moreno

Personal logo ACWBill Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2004 10:34 a.m. PST

PS, I think hat feathers for lights were black and line were red.

John the OFM28 Dec 2004 10:35 a.m. PST

Oh. Feathers are white.

link

BlackWatch28 Dec 2004 10:41 a.m. PST

To John - thank You very much!

to Bill - thank You too! As for Perry's figures IMHO they are best 28 mm figures on the market. Most proportional, real and lively. good job!

Regards,
Mikhail

Personal logo ACWBill Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2004 10:43 a.m. PST

OFM, did they not dye the feathers? I have found several references to this in a few of my books? Curious.

B

BlackWatch28 Dec 2004 10:45 a.m. PST

May be, white feathers were regimental distinction?

Mikhail

Personal logo ACWBill Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2004 10:51 a.m. PST

I will check my reference at home tonight as I am working from long-term memory only on the feather issue. : )

John the OFM28 Dec 2004 10:59 a.m. PST

Yes, they are a regimental distinction. There's even a Sharpe book where the South Essex puts themselves under the protection, such as it was, of the PoW.

ONE feather can be just a plume. Three together, and they are PoW feathers.

sgt bob28 Dec 2004 11:19 a.m. PST

white feathers were a regimental disinction ,belt leather was same color for entire batt/regiment ,black was ordered and issured in 1777 ,but did take time to replace the white belts as the rgt did paid heed to their budget and not worn out belts were not replaced til their were worn out ,campaign equipment did get into a mishmash fashion and as with most units did not get back into regulation parade dress ship shape til in garrision for a long period of time or back home to england ,keep in mind parade dress was not as it is in today's cookis cutter stamped out lookalikes
rgt's commanders had a lot more leeway ,what was desired/regulation in the 18th cent is met by 20th attitude more than by 18th supply/ability

Supercilius Maximus28 Dec 2004 1:30 p.m. PST

The three feathers are the regimental badge (Prince of Wales' own insignia in fact) and should indeed be white - for other regiments, red for the battalion companies, white for grenadiers (who increasingly wore hats as the war went on) and black for the lights (I've also heard of dark green being used by them as well, and two companies - from the 44th and 46th Foot - dyed theirs red after either Paoli or Brandywine, so the Americans could spot them more easily).

There are several examples of entire units dyeing belts black (officially this was just for the light company); the 20th and 24th did so in Burgoyne's campaign for example. It would be just as easy to use the blackball with which they polished their shoes and cartridge boxes (and leather caps in the "light bobs"), and to leave the pipeclay behind when they went on campaign.

I'd disagree on the subject of blankets; IMO they would look failry standard throughout a unit. Blankets were not standard issue items in peacetime, but do appear to have been issued to men in N America for specific campaigns (as were "blanket coats" to troops in Canada). Blankets were a common commodity in America as they were used as trade goods for the Indians. I'd suggest looking at the von Germann drawing of a British soldier in a "blanket coat" - off-white/light grey (undyed wool) with a blue or red stripe - in Mollo/McGregor. Undoubtedly they would fade, and possibly even need patching, if actually worn in the field, but I wouldn't take the Confederate Army as a guide for this item (tempting as it may seem). I'd also be wary of making the clothing of British troops too diverse within the same unit - tatty, yes, but not as wildly different as that of the Continentals. "Crack" regiments - such as the 23rd and 33rd - made the effort to look smart, and drew praise from almost everyone they served under or with throughout the war.

Whilst these are lovely figures, I think someone has already pointed out that they style of the uniform is based on the LIGHT company and it is possible (maybe even probable) that the battalion companies did not dress this way. For a start they would not have had the red waistcoat to convert into the "roundabout" jacket, so this would have had to have been improvised or specifically made (I believe Ewald refers to red jackets, but I'm not sure which unit he's talking about). Also, it was unusual for the blanket to be carried in this fashion if a knapsack was also being worn, as the rolled blanket was frequently used in place of the knapsack, with kit and other items being carried inside it (in this role, the blanket was more often carried slung diagonally across the back by a rope - often called a "tump line" - rather than being rolled long-ways and wrapped right around the body).

SM

Supercilius Maximus28 Dec 2004 1:34 p.m. PST

I'd also like to add that this thread alone has given the lie to recent comments that the OFM doesn't like to share knowledge.

(Agree with you 100% John, everyone should read books.)

AndyBrace28 Dec 2004 2:24 p.m. PST

I would like the Perrys to do the 23rd in their early war uniform with Fusilier caps.

John the OFM28 Dec 2004 2:37 p.m. PST

Oh, my, yes. I am doing Boston next. I have the 23rd, but I took Hinchliffe grenadiers and scraped off the shoulder thingies. Of course the hats too tall, and the bayonets too flimsy.


Thank you, SM.

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