"Review "Spanish Infantry of the Early Peninsular War"" Topic

I found out about this book via a posting from Tango01 for which I am very grateful.

The book was authored by Gerard Cronin and Stephen Summerfield, both TMP memebers.

The book is about 240mm x 160mm (9.5"x6.5") and 178 pages, printed on high quality paper and published by Ken Trotman in the UK.

The work covers the Spanish infantry during the period 1798 and 1808. This is the period immediately prior to the French invasion and the start of the War of Liberation.

The Book clearly explains the organisation and recruitment of the Spanish infantry covers the Line – both native and foreign regiments – light infantry, and militia.

The book is lavishly illustrated with numerous illustrations, the majority of which are in colour. For the line infantry the uniforms of 1797 and 1802 are discussed in outline and for the 1805 and 1808 patterns every unit is described in detail with not just tables but with stylised pictures of each. We also have descriptions of uniforms for the 'New Units' of 1808-1809 as resistance against the French stiffened.

For light infantry, we have the 1800 uniform, the 1802 and two versions of the 1805 uniform. Again the all these are clearly described.

Finally we have the militia units in the uniforms of 1790, 1802,1805 and the later period of 1808-9.

For the line and foreign units we have service histories and flags. For the lights and the militia units not every individual flag is shown but plenty of details are given.

Comments.

The Spanish were on of the most underestimated foes of Napoleonic France. The troops suffered from appalling leadership and a bad press from both British and French sources.

This is a great introduction to the Old Army prior to the later units of the Junta period and the supplies from Britain.

A great resource and must have for the Peninsular library. Excellent value for money.

So happy you enjoyed it my dear cousin!! (smile).

Amicalement
Armand

I heard about this from Armand as well. Thanks for the info. It looks like a great book for one of my favorite armies.

Have to check if Amazon carries it…thanks for sharing and the feedback!

P.

I shold also point out that some of the translators was out own Armand – Tango01.

138SquadronRAF

Many thanks indeed for your kind comments and the splendid
review!! the tome can be purchased direct from me at
gjmfigurines4@btinternet.com and will appear on my company
site gringo40s.com very soon.
the book may also be purchased from Ken Trotman ltd..orOMM
in the USA

best regards Gerard cronin
aka Ged
gringo40s.com
gringo40s.blogspot.com
gjmfigurines.com

Got my copy that I advance ordered from On Military Matters today. The review is spot on. Very useful book about a very confusing topic. Great service from Dennis as always.

Now that I have this I will get back on getting my Spanish painted.

How much of the holy grail of Nappy Spanish Uniformology – the patterns of the grenadier's embroidered bearskin bags – is presented?

Well the grenadier flames are covered for some units only. The don't seem to be linked to facing and button colour, which is a shame. Some are given, many are not.

Dear Hew
Grenadier flames is a complex subject and the information upon them is scarse. All the contemporary pictures of these that I have or seen are in the book. These are mostly derived or are by Christopher Suhr. No doubt my co-author can discuss this in more depth.

The changes of the facings over the period since 1760 confuses the situation. The original designs seems to match the facings dating back to the 1770s. Certainly more work is required and I look forward to reading this when it apprears. I am currently finishing books on the 7YW.

Stephen

Well it's not a holy grail because it is easy.

I agree. It was difficult enough to sort out the emblems for the flags that would have been part of the design. You need to go back to the 1770s uniform facings and trace that through.
Stephen

Stephen, I received a copy last week and am finding it really useful. One question if I can: do we know when the M1802 green hussar uniform for the light infantry changed to the M1805 model in practical terms? Can I use the M1802 style in 1808 and 1809?
John

Dear John
Alas we were able to find the situation for Line Troops in May 1808. There was no direct information for the Cacadores. However, there are the English drawings by Bradford and co dated 1809 that show the M1802 uniform still in use. There are also the Bueno drawings that show the M1802 uniform.

The short answer is that some regiments were still in M1802 uniform. We know that the two Regiments (Bns) that came back from Denmark had been re-uniformed in a French made version of the M1805 uniform that had shakos instead of bicorns.

We could not identify which regiments were in which uniform so my co-author decided correctly that speculation should not go in.
Stephen

I really hope its good my with just ordered it for my birthday wish i could have seen a few picture from the book before getting it

The Emperors Own

im sure you will not be disappointed as the book is packed
with decent illustrations.and im pleased to say has been
received well. i will authorise a small selection of pictures later but not at the moment as its only just been
released!

regards
Gerard Cronin
gringo40s.com
gringo40s.blogspot.com
gjmfigurines.com

jammy four: I wonder if you might be able to clear my confusion over the Spanish Infantry organization in the early Peninsulr war era. My understanding is that the line regiments consisted of three battalions of four companies each, that the first battalion contained two companies of fusiliers and two of grenadiers, that the second and third battalions, (third being a depot battalion), contained four companies of fusiliers each, and that the two grenadier companies were usually detached from the first battalions to form seperate grenadier battalions. When the two grenadier companies from the first battalion were so detached did the first battalion then operate with only two companies. This does not seem likely and leaves me suspecting that I just missed something in my reading on the Spanish Army. Thank you in advance for any input you may care to render.

John Miller

I just got my copy in the mail 2 hours ago !! It is very good indeed the best book to date on the Spanish Army !!

Thanks Stephen

Ok But when are we going to get parts 2 and 3 Get cracking !!! I want more !!!

Dear Emperor's Own
Please ask my esteemed colleague and author, Gerard Cronin (jammy four) as to when the next part is planned to be completed.
Stephen

John

Perhaps I can help you in your question.

In 1805 the Infanteria de Linea were composed of 3 battalions each.

Each battalion consisted of 4 Fusilieros and one Granaderos Company

I am assuming that the Spanish followed the French general principles within the exercice d'infanterie, which has a sub-category called l'exercice de details…which is also an exercice de peloton for l'homme d' aile (flankers)

The 3 Infanteria de Linea battalions would operate in 8 pelotons each. This mean the battalions would follow the principles of having flankers detached en compagnie-peloton or from the third rank.

One source states that while a battalion was in column formation, that 8 men per company would be allocated as flankers, thus giving a total of 16 men from the third rank of each demi-battalion. But that could be a typo and actually meant 8 men per peloton, giving each demi-battalion 32 men to act as flankers.

While the battalion was formed in line; the flankers would return back into the third ranks, and the skirmishers from the Infaneria Ligera Battalions would be used to provide the necessary skirmishers for the Infanteria de Linea, or the skirmishers could also come from the Granaderos who were detached to form a single battalion. Both the Infaneria Ligera and Grganaderos were not subject to the principles of detaching skirmisher en compagnie-peloton , but were capable of detaching skirmishers en compagnie-division (peloton).

(If there were only 2 Granaderos companies per Regiment, and there was no Granaderos company in the depot battalion, the Granaderos Battalion would manoeuvre in colonne de peloton)

There is also a third means of providing skirmishers for a Regiment in line, and that would be to detach the flankers from the Infaneria Linea Battalions which were in columns.

But using skirmishers from the Infanteria Ligera Battalion or detached Grandaderos was the preferred principle.

I hope this helps
Best Regards
Art

Dear Art
Thank you as ever for your clear explanation. It is much clearer now.
Stephen

Stephen, Art, and all: Thank you all very much for your responses to my question !!! I believe you guys have solved my problem !!!
John Miller

the Emperors Own

excuse the delay in replying just
spotted the swathe of questions!

in answer to your question there
will be an expanded second volume
as im actually working on extra chapters
and illustrations…

thanks Artpdn for your comprehensive reply
which fundamentally agrees with my take on battalion
composiion.

regards
Ged

gringo40s.com
gringo40s.blogspot.com
gjmfigurines.com

Sorry – thats confused me.
John Millar said that the line regiments consisted of three battalions of four companies each, that the first battalion contained two companies of fusiliers and two of grenadiers, that the second and third battalions contained four companies of fusiliers each.
Artpdn then said that they were composed of 3 battalions and each battalion consisted of 4 Fusilieros and one Granaderos Company.
Can anyone clarify which it was?
Cheers,
Dave

Dear all
The Five company organisation is not correct but the rest of what was stated in Art's answer is correct. Remember the Spanish rarely operated in more than single Bn regiments.

The spliting into four Peletons is based upon the Prussian system of Zugen where the company was an adminstrative system.

I should read clearer the answers.
Stephen

Dear Stephen, Ged, John, et al,

Actually no one is to blame except myself for the confusion that I caused.

Sincere Apologies
Art

artdpn: No need for apologies. The subject is more complicated then I imagined. Thank you for responding to me. John Miller

Dear Art
It is a very complex and confusing subject. The writing of the book on the infantry was just attempting to make sense of the information. There is still more to do.
Stephen

Gents

please note the book is now available direct from me
at gringo40s.com
under "publications from Gringo40s" at the top of
the order bar

regards
Gerard Cronin aka
Ged
gringo40s.com
gringo40s.blogspot.com
gjmfigurines.com

As far as I understand it the 1802[?] organization calles for the 1st Bm to be two coys. of Grenadiers, and two coys of Musketeers. Within a Bde. there would be two reg'ts., the Grenadier coys. would be combined into a four coy. Grenadier bn. The left over Musketeer coys., from the 1st bns., would be combined into a 'Premier' bn..

Now around 1805 the Spanish changed to a five coy bn., with a Grenadier coy., and four fusilier coys. No ones seems to know whether this change was ever implemented. In 1810 they went to six coys. per bn. One Cazadore coy., one Grenadier coy., and four Fusilier coys.

My impression would be if the "Premier" battalion consisted of four companies, two each from different regiments, was as you refer to above, then it would be correct to have two companies each with different regimental distinctions. I know this is being extremely fussy but I was hoping to get it correct. Thank you very much for your responce.
John Miller

Yes that is what would happen. la Romana's troops in Denmark were organized into two divisions. Each division had two infantry reg'ts. (three bns. each), a light infantry regiment, and two cavalry regiments (five sqdns. each). Funnily enough in one division both infantry reg'ts had the same coloured facings,

Dear Major Bloodnock
The situation for Romana Division as explained in length in our book was a little bit more complex than that with the different issues of uniforms. My esteemed colleague, Gerard Cronin, who studied carefully and wrote the extended captions on the Suhr plates should be able to explain this in more detail.

Remember as well that companies were administrative and not tactical organisations. The battalion would be split into four peletons (zugen). None of the historical OOBs for 1798-1808 that I have studied show the amalgamation of grenadiers except for the Grenadiers of the Militia that were pernamently combined. This does not mean that this was not done at a tactical level. Remember the III Bn was a depot Bn.

If the grenadiers were stripped away from I Bn. Then I & II Bn would be combined to give 6 adminstrative companies but 4 peletons.

It is certainly an interesting question.

I have no reference to a change in organisation in 1805 as stated above.
Stephen

Dear Dr. Summerfield, sorry for the correction, but it's "pelotones" not "peletons"

Platoon = Pelotón. (Plural: Pelotones.

A pleasure to hear about you again.

Amicalement
Armand

Dear Armand
Thank you. I am more at home in German than French. Also I have seen it spelt incorrectly in many English publications.
Stephen

No mention my friend.

Amicalement
Armand

This really is a useful book, however having spent the afternoon in the garden reading the next couple of chapters. I am a bit confused by the some of the illustrations and accompanying text.

page 88.

Grenadier flames left to right should read regts Guadalajara, Zamora , unknown, Saboya. (See below)

Page 88 and 89.

1) I think the text is wrong. left to right should read
(A Sgt from) Regt Guadalajana- see page 52 and 80. Page 52 shows the shield as being a knight on a horse, same as the flame. Page 80 shows the regt colours as being red on turnbacks, collar, cuffs and lapels.
2) Pioneer – see page 80 with black facings and brass/gold coloured buttons, should this not be 4th Saboya?
3) Centre figure. this cant be guadulajara as they had red facings. This figure has green lapels with white colour and white/steel buttons. should this be Regt Asturias?
4) This grenadier has the same flame as shown on page 60. should this not then be Regt Saboya?
5) Figure on the right. This grenadier has the same flame as that shown on page 64, a plated arm carrying a red white and blue flag. should this then be Regt Zamora?

Page 99

Figure labelled 1 Violet collar, white lapel (piped violet) must be 27th Princesa, (see page 80) not Zamora as stated in text. Presumably a sgt by the size of his epaulette (?) and in the pre 1805 head dress as all flames were red (after 1805 they were in the facing colour?)
The flame on figure 2 is the same as that on page 88. with violet collar and cuffs, this has to be from either Regt Rey, Reina or Princesa? (see page 80)
Figure labelled 3, has the same armoured arm with a red, white and blue flag in the flame as the figure (far right) on page 80. Presumably he is a Pioneer from Regt Zamora?
Figure labelled 4. This is listed as a Grenadier of Guadalajara, who had red facings. Did the greatcoats of the Spanish Regiments have collars that matched the uniform coat collar underneath? If so then shouldn't this have been red? If not then presumably, from this picture, we cannot be sure which Regt this grenadier is from? The white cord on the bearskin is interesting because I haven't read anything that suggests that any did.
figure 5 is I believe correct as this matches the flame of the grenadier on page 89.

page 101

The pioneer on the left has a black collar, lapels and cuffs with brass/yellow buttons. Page 80 indicates that he could be from Regt Saboya.

Middle figure. Obviously I don't know what the text was that went with this picture, but with a light blue collar and turn backs could this not be from Regt Granada, Valencia or Cantabria (See page 80)

Figure on the right. Regt Asturias appears to be correct.

Please don't get me worng, this is a fascinating book and well worth it.

This really is a useful book, however having spent the afternoon in the garden reading the next couple of chapters. I am a bit confused by the some of the illustrations and accompanying text.

page 88.

Grenadier flames left to right should read regts Guadalajara, Zamora , unknown, Saboya. (See below)

Page 88 and 89.

1) I think the text is wrong. left to right should read
(A Sgt from) Regt Guadalajana- see page 52 and 80. Page 52 shows the shield as being a knight on a horse, same as the flame. Page 80 shows the regt colours as being red on turnbacks, collar, cuffs and lapels.
2) Pioneer – see page 80 with black facings and brass/gold coloured buttons, should this not be 4th Saboya?
3) Centre figure. this cant be guadulajara as they had red facings. This figure has green lapels with white colour and white/steel buttons. should this be Regt Asturias?
4) This grenadier has the same flame as shown on page 60. should this not then be Regt Saboya?
5) Figure on the right. This grenadier has the same flame as that shown on page 64, a plated arm carrying a red white and blue flag. should this then be Regt Zamora?

Page 99

Figure labelled 1 Violet collar, white lapel (piped violet) must be 27th Princesa, (see page 80) not Zamora as stated in text. Presumably a sgt by the size of his epaulette (?) and in the pre 1805 head dress as all flames were red (after 1805 they were in the facing colour?)
The flame on figure 2 is the same as that on page 88. with violet collar and cuffs, this has to be from either Regt Rey, Reina or Princesa? (see page 80)
Figure labelled 3, has the same armoured arm with a red, white and blue flag in the flame as the figure (far right) on page 80. Presumably he is a Pioneer from Regt Zamora?
Figure labelled 4. This is listed as a Grenadier of Guadalajara, who had red facings. Did the greatcoats of the Spanish Regiments have collars that matched the uniform coat collar underneath? If so then shouldn't this have been red? If not then presumably, from this picture, we cannot be sure which Regt this grenadier is from? The white cord on the bearskin is interesting because I haven't read anything that suggests that any did.
figure 5 is I believe correct as this matches the flame of the grenadier on page 89.

page 101

The pioneer on the left has a black collar, lapels and cuffs with brass/yellow buttons. Page 80 indicates that he could be from Regt Saboya.

Middle figure. Obviously I don't know what the text was that went with this picture, but with a light blue collar and turn backs could this not be from Regt Granada, Valencia or Cantabria (See page 80)

Figure on the right. Regt Asturias appears to be correct.

Please don't get me wrong, this is a fascinating book and well worth it.

Dear Peter
Please discuss the identification of these with my esteemed colleague Gerard Cronin who wrote all the extended captions.

The illustrations by Suhr were produced at the time from what he saw. It is difficult with the Spanish Army in Northern Germany to state what they should have had. They were make do and mending. Many of the units had been away from Spain for 4 years. As you have seen many in mid 1808 were wearing uniforms issued in 1802.

Some had troopers soldiers making up the numbers from Militia regiments and other infantry regiments.
Stephen