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"Kolin, June 18, 1757. A case study " Topic


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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2014 9:58 p.m. PST

"Amongst the Frederician battles, Kolin was the one that most intrigued me; the reasons are manifolds: the first battle lost by the Old Fritz, the endless anedottics –"Rouges, do you want to live forever!"- amongst the others, the beautiful Clash of Arms boardgame (Never played once: I am too old to read 50 pages of rules and 12 of tables. Nevertheless a real pleasure for the eyes and the historical commentary by Christopher Duffy alone well deserves the price):

picture

picture

From here
torgauproject.blogspot.com.ar

Amicalement
Armand

crogge175706 May 2014 1:27 a.m. PST

Nice. Didn't anyone proof read at least the title?
Its Kolin, not Kölin. The latter is a beer brand, I should guess.

WCTFreak06 May 2014 4:47 a.m. PST

I think, they mixed up the original German name and the Czech one. Köln + Kolin = Kölin
There might be even historical documents featuring this nameform, until the late 18th Century names of cities could vary wildly. Several maps of this time know my home town by more than five different names.

Musketier06 May 2014 6:14 a.m. PST

Was Kolin ever spelled Köln though, like the city on the Rhine ?!

I rather suppose this stems from the usual reflex among English-language publishers: "It's German, so let's throw in a fistful of umlauts"…

WCTFreak06 May 2014 6:19 a.m. PST

Nope its also known as Köln, an der Elbe. There are a lot of Kölln and Cölln (slightly different spelling) in the former and today German territories…

Costanzo106 May 2014 7:00 a.m. PST

A great batte and the best battlefield I have seen!

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP06 May 2014 8:53 a.m. PST

Glad you like it my friend!.

Amicalement
Armand

Graf Bretlach06 May 2014 9:58 a.m. PST

Why not call it the battle of Krzeczor, much easier to pronounce!! the original name.

of course there is Köln or Cologne in English and Kolin or Kolin in English, two different places.

I suspect the publishers thought it looked more authoritative with the umlaut and old German font.

Its an interesting battle, although the Austrians had superior numbers it was won because the marshal was able to maneuver his army something Charlie totally failed to do later with even greater numbers at Leuthen and with disastrous results.

Altefritz06 May 2014 10:39 a.m. PST

Looking at the description in the Duffy books, it seems that it was a "close run thing". This makes a very interesting wargame/boardgame situation, mainly for the reasons stated by Graf Bretlach. As far as the name is concerned, once Voltaire praised Fritz to give battles in places with names more euphonious than "Chotusitz"… I share Voltaire point of view, since to an italian like me, the name Krzeczor is a nightmare full of consonants…..So my vote is for Kolin…:)

Fabrizio

Graf Bretlach06 May 2014 10:58 a.m. PST

It should really have been called the battle of Slatislunz or variations of. you don't get many battles named after public houses.

Altefritz06 May 2014 11:32 a.m. PST

Ok, we could arrange a deal: we shall call it "The Battle of Slati Slunce" as soon as somebody else will start to call a minor battle in Belgium "The Battle of the Belle Alliance"….

crogge175706 May 2014 11:56 a.m. PST

I fully understand you Fabrizio.
Calling it Krzeczor (the Prussian general staff maps reading) or alternatively Krechor (Austrian general staff maps – but missing about 3 ‘v‘ style umlauts on the ‘r‘ and ‘c‘ with my keyboard) would be of help only if you'd know how to read it all. I know some Czech people and I'm aware the language sounds much different to its (German or Italian) reading. I'm completely lost here.
The battle was indeed a close thing. Though, wargaming-wise, I doubt the Prussians will end up with a fair chance. I played Kolin about 3 times and Prussians always got beaten. Its just too many white coats up the hill, and way too much cavalry ganging up ill-intended on that Prussian left wing.

olicana07 May 2014 9:00 a.m. PST

Its just too many white coats up the hill,

That is the problem with this battle as it is generally wargamed. The 'hill' is just a low ridge with a very long gentle slope from the Kaiser Strasse with some 30 years war earthworks at the top. It is not a difficult climb.

What is more interesting is the gully at Brzistwi (Duffy) which is deep, steep sided, and splits the line of approach in two (east / west). This rarely features on maps as a distinct feature (sorry, no photo) but it left an impression on me when I was there.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2014 9:41 a.m. PST

Many thanks for your guidance and pics Olicana!. (smile).

Amicalement
Armand

Altefritz07 May 2014 1:21 p.m. PST

Thanks Olicana, I'll keep your suggestions in mind when I'll try to simulate the battle. You put my mind on unrest….:)

Fabrizio

crogge175707 May 2014 1:33 p.m. PST

@olicana,

Nice images. In our refigths, we hardly accounted for the "elevation" with our terrain. Actually, you can see my games terrain sketch on kronoskaf. They have my battle set up included. I did take account of that gully, however. Its marked out as a sunken road. But I might have accounted for it in the wrong direction.

grommet3705 Jan 2015 7:39 p.m. PST

Nice blog! I'll be interested to see this develop.

link

Just finished reading about this battle in Duffy's TMLoFtG, and got the Osprey from the library as well.

I knew there had to be at least one TMP thread about it.

Great shot of the "hill" olicana.

I need to look up the pronunciation of about 100 Central European towns. I keep stopping to sound out "Krzeczor".

Kr'zechor? Of the many I would like to visit, this is one.

Musketier07 Jan 2015 6:37 a.m. PST

The (modern?) Czech spelling is … EDIT: apparently impossible to reproduce correctly here?

It's pronounced something like "kshay-George" (if I don't misquote my Czech colleague to badly).

On balance, we may be better off with Kolin, which rhymes with colleen, and I'll even forgive the erroneous Umlaut…

Oh, and the battle is indeed very interesting, but probably impossible to re-play without disguising it.

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Jan 2015 10:57 a.m. PST

Here is a picture of one of the Kolin games that I ran at the Seven Years War Association convention in 2005:

picture

picture


I've probably refought Kolin about 6-8 times and IIRC the Prussians have never won, but played to a draw once.

The first time I ran this game, the Austrians descended from the hills, en masse, and overwhelmed the Prussians – sort of an 18th Century Isandlhwana.

The second time, I severely restricted the Austrians' ability to come down from the hills and counter-attack on the Austrian left was only allowed if the Prussians initiated the action in the same sector.

I would recommend modeling the scenario around the action at Krechor and the Oak Wood and extending the flank to the area that Duffy calls "the Cauldron". You really don't need to model the rest of the battlefield.

Musketier07 Jan 2015 2:12 p.m. PST

Fritz, quite a splendid looking game (but then, yours usually are), and one which people appear to have enjoyed.

Agree that the eastern half of the field is the more rewarding in gaming terms.

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