"You know nothing, Jon the OFM (GoT SPOILERS!)" Topic

As a semi-hardcore fan of the books, I an always watching and bitching "Hey, THAT'S not the way they did it in the books!"

So, I really enjoyed the YouTube videos of clueless TV fans' shocked reactions to Ned's early exit and the Red Wedding.
I could be smug, since I knew what was coming up.

However, last week blew my smugness out of the water. I am now as clueless as the rest of you! It's like watching the Sopranos, and I like it.

You call that spolilers! What happened?! (I have to wait a full year anywya, and I've never read the book so I don't care in that regard)! ;-)

I'm new to GoT, having just finished the first book and started the second. I don't get HBO and I really want to read the books before I watch the series (I always look upon books and TV or movie adaptations as being deprecate things, changes from one to the other don't bug me). And spoilers don't bug me either. But having followed some GoT threads lately I thought that Jon Snow was dead. Obviously he's not so was I wrong or is he brought back to life?

Jon Snow has an Ides of March moment at the end of Book 5. Book 6 is making its leisurely way through Martin's typewriter.
He has not officially "died" yet, though. He is fading, feels the cold, blah blah blah. Standard cliffhanger.
Not to worry, though. Ghost is nearby to warg into, and Melissandre who worships the same god as that handy resurrectionist Thoros of Myr is in the crowd. I am not worried.

Last week had Jon planning a raid on Craster's Keep to kill the mutineers who would know just how depleted the Watch was. The mutineers had also kidnapped Jon's brother Bran. In the books none of that happened.

Also on the show, a mysterious leader of the White Walkers "turned" a baby into a White Walker. NOTHING LIKE THAT IN THE BOOKS. however, HBO goofed (or not?) in a press blurb and identified him as the Night's King. Readers and delvers know what a MAJOR SPOILER that is.
I call that a major "La di da, Mister Fancy know it all book reader!" slap, to teach us proper humility.

So, my point is that Episodes 4 and 5 this year have readers just as clueless as non book readers.

I'm just hoping a certain Lion dies as in the books. Otherwise I'm happy for the show to diverge from the books for the most part. Have to say I only got 1/3 of the way through book 5 and lost interest, not sure why I loved the first 4.

I'm just hoping a certain Lion dies as in the books

Yeah I didnt like Aslan either

Yeah I didnt like Aslan either

He only makes his first appearance in a few episodes, so it will be a shame to kill him off so early in his story arc.

I have to say that I was sorry to see Drogo due in Book One, I had great hopes that he would have smashed the Lannisters.

That's one hell of a pain in the butt he's about to get…

When I was much younger a cop show "Hill Street Blues" came on and it really broke the mold. Two of the central characters were gunned down in the first episode and one was supposed to die but they wound up letting him live, although he carried the effects of the shooting for the rest of the series. It did give you the feeling though that every time the cops went on patrol they might not come back. But they did that without a bloodbath of their characters, although they had a bunch.

I enjoy GoT but they haven't seemed to learn, in the books or what I've read about the show, that often less is more. That you can have suspense without killing everyone. I just finished "Twenty Years After", the sequel to "The Three Musketeers" and even though I knew, spoiler alert" that they make it to the end if the book there were times when it seemed that Mordaunt had them dead to rights that I was concerned. I guess that's the difference between Martin and Dumas. Martin is a good writer, Dumas was a genius.

Jowady – Could not agree more with the "Hill Street Blues" reference. The show was entertaining, ground breaking for its time, and managed to create a unique "feel" every week. I am not seeing that in GoT.

Having read the books and watched the series …I have to say I really do not care about the plot or story line anymore. At almost every opportunity to do something interesting…GRRM and the writers go for bloodshed and depravity. What a waste of potential.

As for GoT spoilers….sorry, but I think GoT spoiled a long time ago. It is time to throw it out with last months fish surprise, the carton of curdled milk, and the rotting vegetation that used to be a kale salad and then fumigate the fridge/ice box. The show started out interesting (and I had high hopes) but then the series became a televised (boys) version of "50 Shades of Grey" with soft core porn, snuff weddings, blood, pointy-stabby things….and dragons. ;-)

Winter is coming! (Please come soon!!!!)

(Note: This is just an observation of the book/series. It is not intended as a personal condemnation of anyone who enjoys the show.)

I happen to like the soft core porn, thanks. I know gamers aren't supposed to be interested in sex (except to snigger at women in breastplate), but there it is. I find a good sex scene – one that is well shot and has context – easily as compelling as a good combat scene.

I have never understood why people think descriptions of combat are koooool but descriptions of sex is icky porn. People fight. People . I give kudos to GoT for showing an unvarnished picture of life on the middle ages. And if you think it's exagerated in its violence and lust, read any good history of the Hundred Years War you choose.

It is not "gratuitous" to show people having sex – no more than to show them eating. Or ting, for that matter… (Spoiler hint.)

As for the deaths…. Serious spoilers here, so stop reading now.

Let us recap who has REALLY died so far, among the major characters.

Ned Stark.
Joffery – and good riddance to the little bastard.
Rob Stark.

…and among the big secondary characters in the books…

Lyssa Aryn
Big Daddy Hisself.

That is FIVE deaths out of a cast of more than three dozen main and secondaey characters. Hardly a bloodbath. I guess you could toss Mormont in there, and Drogo, if you wanted to be picky.

But PoV characters? Only one: Ned.

And note: these deaths take place over a four year period in the context of a series of extremely bloody wars and general systemic collapse. NOT unrealistic, except to folks who like Fantasyland.

Sorry, but I find real human drama compelling and GoT offers plenty of that.

Who is "Big Daddy"?

re. Catelyn…has she been brought back yet, and Ser Whatzit Neverdead is gone for good, I presume? (Good character – I'm sorry he didn't get more air time).

Sorry but I find it amusing to talk about the unvarnished portrayal of the Middle Ages presented by ashow that has a 200 foot high ice wall, dragons and folks coming back from the dead.

@Zakalwe64: I guess "GoT" makes reading about (and living through) such Fantasylands as the holocaust, the Darfur, Afghanistan, and Nigeria that much less painful…"GoT" being reality and all.

Spoiler: "GoT" is a fantasy. It has no bearing on reality and as such has no real human drama. Neither the books nor the series have any relationship to the real world. They are for entertainment purposes only. (Although, I must admit, I do like my Middle Ages "folk" with product in their hair, smoky eye liner, and great dental plans. That dark ages styling brings the reality right out for me. Thank goodness "GoT" does not broadcast in 'Smell-o-Vision'. The wafting fragrance of Jamie's Old Spice and Cersie's Channel Number 5 instead of raw sewage, rotting carrion, and unwashed humanity would put me right over the edge with giddiness.) Not to mention that I have no recollection of dragons or white-walking ice zombies as part the historical record anywhere in Europe or the Middle East…believe me I looked.

I can only deduce that your comments of "real human drama" and an "unvarnished picture of life in the middle ages" were meant to bring a sense of irony into the discussion. If not, your discussion fails in both a relativistic and historical perspective. If you want to talk to me about cleaning up after a real "red wedding", explaining Sandusky/Castro/Dahmer/etc…to the victim's families, clearing DOA car accidents, or picking up the pieces following an IED then we can discuss real human drama. Reality is much more visceral.

As for sex, historically speaking, it was used for procreation, control, or assimilation. Most of us mixed breed mutts owe our heritage to this at some point in our lineage. (Heck, it is why I have Moorish, Scott- Irish, German, and Comanche as part of my DNA.) For "GoT", GRRM, and the Series writers sex is a plot point intended to move the story line. I don't mind watching or reading about it, but at this point sex in "GoT" is starting to be filler material instead of something important to the story. (It is becoming a groundhog day for sex in the series. In the books the sex descriptions only vary by about 17 words per page- over and over again – kind of like the description of eating/feasts. With a few exceptions you could cut the scenes out without making any impact on the story. Right now it is like watching the same porn video over and over again. No prob if you like that sort of thing – I just like variety.)

If you want to talk about the historical relationship of Senlac Hill, Agincourt, Amida, or Badajoz (if you roll that way) to Fallujah, Ramses Square, Hom, or Kunduz then we can discuss reality. But, please keep Oxcross, Kraster's Keep, or Winterfell out of the historical discussion. (Those are fictitious "GoT" battles and although they are great for gaming they are not real.)

If you want to discuss reality and real human drama I am up for it. But it is disingenuous to those who have survived your "fantasylands" to describe "GoT" as anything more than an entertaining fantasy. If you want to talk, I'll buy the beer. Until then, relax, play some games, pet the trolls, and learn to laugh a little.

Note: the comments in my original post were intended as an offhand joke to John the OFM about the change in spoilers caused by the increasing divergence between the books and the series. (I even included a winking smiley to emphasize my point.) My other comments were direct at jowady because I agreed with his post and really like "Hill Street Blues". If I offended anyone I sincerely apologize it was not my intent.

For "GoT" fans, I have read all of the books (to date) and have watched most of the series as they provide some modest entertainment. I will continue to read and watch in the coming months because:

…Winter is Coming! (And then things will get really interesting.)