"This should end the argument once and for all" Topic

OMFG

OK first, they're in two separate universes with two separate sets of assumptions. So that right there should put paid to the whole thing.

With that said, of course Imperial star destroyers have shields. You might as well have a pic of the imperial bridge crew saying, "Sir, that ship is completely unarmed. What shall we do?" "Launch fighters and destroy them."

they do have 'shields'
note refs to 'deflectors'
YouTube link

they're not lazers
they are TURBO lasers

the power of a photon torpedo is insignificant to the power of the force!

on mixing franchises:
link

also of note:
HAN SHOT FIRST!

It's still funny, though.

Doug

They are both silly scifi. ;)

Enterprise goes to warp, particle beam weapons like lasers, even turbo lasers and Enterprises' phasers cannot exceed the speed of light (see Einstein), however photon torpedoes can. But no, it doesn't solve anything.

Mimbari warcruisers would leave both as scrap metal, as would the Andromeda.

Andromeda is somewhat loosely tied to the Star Trek franchise

I understand it was originally envisioned as the far future of trek
commonweath => federation
nietzscheans => klingons
etc

How does the Enterprise copy with being board buy storm troopers led by Vader? Phasers to stun are going to be a bit carp…

Death Blossom!

How do the storm troopers board? Meanwhile Enterprise can beam a boarding party wherever they want. And remember, phasers can be set to kill. Besides, strormtroopers can't hit anything. Remember, ObiWan talks about how "random" a blaster is.

Except when shooting up hapless Jawas, of course then Storm Troopers' shooting is "precise and accurate"….

Not only can't they hit anything, but their armor dosn't even stop small rocks, I'm sure Worf with his batleth can take out a few battalions of stormtroopers by accident.

And given how easy they die, I'm sure even stun form a phaser would vaporize them.

There was a web site dedicated to this and a fan crossover novel, I just cannot remember the name of it.

It compared the stats between the two factions…..basically the Federation is totally ed.

I've also read crossover fan fiction, and there the enterprise destroyed the death star with one photon torpedo and that was after it had taken a direct blast from it's main gun.

"I am the Lexx. The most powerful destructive weapon in the two universes. Stanley Tweedle is my captain. I blow up planets for him."

"And given how easy they die, I'm sure even stun form a phaser would vaporize them"

the injured stormtrooper
YouTube link

I've also read crossover fan fiction, and there the enterprise destroyed the death star with one photon torpedo and that was after it had taken a direct blast from it's main gun.

I remember the the crossover fan novel I'm thinking of mainly because unlike a lot fan fiction it wasn't that bad. It had the Empire with Picard in command of an Imperial Fleet (after the quick and easy conquest of the Federation) destroying the Borg in the second half of the novel.

I wish I could remember the web site it had all the data from the Star Wars and Star Trek universes cross referenced.

Basically the Empire has hugely bigger, better armed and armoured ships with hugely superior FTL capability and an amazingly huge superiority in numbers of men, vehicles and ships.

Well since star wars happened a long time ago and star trek is in the distant future, perhaps they will advance somewhat by the time Vader 2000th great grandson meets Kirk

The Empire only used its formidable war machines when diplomancy or manipulation was ineffective or inappropriate. Given Palpatine's track record, the Federation would literally be putty in his hands. No shots need ever be fired.

If watching either franchise has taught me anything, it is sad fact that both ships need to be within 500 yards of their target to do anything.

How dare you Sir, and on May the Fourth as well! I challenge you to light sabres at dawn…oh wait, Trekkies don't have light sabres!

This, this ends it. FIREPOWER :p

YouTube link

Death Blossom!

Like dynamiting fish in a barrel, if you're talking about TIE fighters.

Too nerdy for me to comment.

can't believe a wargamer just said that :-)

Star Trek doesn't have a Jar Jar Binks that threatens to destroy the franchise (okay, maybe Wesley Crusher comes close…. ;)

Kept hoping for Wesley to show up in a red shirt… (Quickest way to lose a character in Trek is to have them wear a red shirt. It's a fact…)

Yeah, but which one has more toys, games, spinoffs, etc.? THAT'S who the REAL winner is….

Who's movies made more money? That should settle it in our capitalist system.

Actually they would most likely ally and then conquer everywhere. They are both Fascist dictatorships after all.

I second Rapier miniatures' comment :)

John T

Well, Star Wars tech numbers are post-movie bunk. And a "proton torpedo" is a stupid concept, as what the heck are protons going to do? Also "Turbo" lasers? Sending a laser through a turbine does what to strengthen its power, exactly? Meaningless twaddle.

So since at its original core, Star Trek did try to base its concepts on real physics (as it was understood at the time), I give the edge to Star Trek.

And yes, the beam the photon torpedo (which makes sense) or, in the latest era, quantum torpedoes (also makes sense) on to the bridge and bye-bye Star Destroyer.

Heck, If ROTJ is any example, all you have to do is aim at an Imperial starship's bridge with an object massing less than 2 tons (if). The shields won't stop it, and when it hits, the whole vessel will immediately careen off into the nearest large Imperial space station or planet, as apparently there are no redundant control systems or secondary bridges anywhere on an Imperial craft.

The only exception I see for the Star Wars franchise is the Death Star, which can muster enough energy to obliterate planets. On the other hand, Star Trek had the Doomsday Machine, which ate whole planets, so "WE SHOT FIRST! Neener, neener!"

I note that while Star Trek never had a planet cracker, at the same time you really don't need to blow up the planet; you can simply bombard or irradiate the surface and achieve the same political result— complete destruction of the enemy population. So at least somebody in the Federation has the good sense not to waste a pound when a penny will do. Heck, the original Enterprise could, on its own, carry out General Order 24— complete, planet wide bombardment. The Empire couldn't even pull that off against Hoth with an entire fleet.

Wouldn't the Federation be more of a socialist dictatorship?

stardestroyer.net

Here it is.
Witness the firepower of the fully armed and operational Imperial Navy.

It is true that Stormtroopers die by the bucket load, but those redshirts don't fair any better.

Flame Wars. Yaaaa. I am a Star wars fan so…… Eat turbo Laser Treky scum. :-) LOL

Can't we just enjoy both?

Want to fight space battles? Let General Domel show you how it's done… YouTube link

And then there's the mightiest spacebattleship ever… YouTube link

Ha, Flash (aka Gordon), as in Jumping Jack, could ram his mighty fleet of one spaceship into your brittle Star Wars/Star Trek empires and bring them both down simultaneously…with laughter, of course, his most secret of secret weapons. If that doesn't work, there's Chuck…er, Buck Rogers.

So there, at least Flash and Buck win at being quaint.

When I was a wee lad in the 60s, I once asked my older brother which ship was more powerful, Star Trek Enterprise or whatever they called the ship in "Lost in Space."

Now that would be a debate.

Parzival, that A-wing killed the Executor right after its shields were brought down by the focused fire of the entire rebel fleet. Listen to the bridge talk before the a-wing hits.

Meanwhile, Stormtroopers are excellent marksmen. Except at Endor, they only missed when they were ORDERED to miss as part of a trap. ANH, it happened when they were trying to let the falcon escape (it had a tracking device aboard). In ESB, it was when they were trying to herd Luke towards Vader's trap. In both cases, they were specifically trying to avoid hurting their targets, and the fact that shots were passing so close and still missing, plus the other battles where the gloves were off and rebels WERE dying, AND Obi Wan's comment about their marksmanship, argues that they were excellent shots.

Redshirts, meanwhile, drop like flies and rarely score kills of any kind, even against random mooks for the other side. Sure, the Enterprise could transport them anywhere on a Star Destroyer, but who cares? Each star destroyer carries thousands of stormtroopers, plus marines. Even assuming the enterprise knocked down their shields, there's nowhere they could be beamed that wouldn't be crawling with stormtroopers. I'm not sure even an unopposed boarding would be successful considering the crew requirements.

Warp Drive lets the Enterprise go FTL in realspace, even close to a planet. Big advantage, I agree. But the SW hyperdrive lets you cross the galaxy much faster, and it's more like a "teleport" drive where you can't be molested on the way.

If it came down to diplomacy, Palpatine would own the Federation in hours.

Granted, the Enterprise would slaughter unshielded imperial snub fighters. But vs the Imperial star destroyer, it boils down to your assumptions about the relative strength of their engines, weapons, and shields.

;-)

that A-wing killed the Executor

And that says it all, right there. A ship the size of Manhattan (or might as well be) is destroyed when one craft barely bigger than a mini-van smacks into the bridge. No redundancy, no alternate helm or crucial systems control features. One feeble smack, and that's all she wrote.

Meanwhile, an old Constellation class vessel can take a full-powered attack from a planet-killer equivalent in power to the Death Star, and still be restored to powered state. No, not FTL, but functional and capable of taking the fight to the enemy. (Reference: The Doomsday Machine, original series, first season.)

I note also that Star Wars spacecraft are susceptible to something as silly (for space combat) as a "concussion missile." Concussing what, exactly? The pilot?

An entire fleet was concentrating its firepower on the Executor. That A-wing rammed the bridge while its shields were down (and "shields are down" on Star Trek is usually code for "one more hit like that will kill us"). There WERE backup systems, including alternate bridges, but the Executor was still under heavy fire at the time and got caught in the gravity well of the second Death Star.

You can't tell me that a Star Trek heavy cruiser being focus fired by an entire fleet and with its shields down will just sit and take it.

And for the record, I think we should take all the "how the hell does this pseudoscience babble work, anyway" talk off the table. Neither Star Trek nor Star Wars can survive more than a moment's scrutiny. If you'd like that conversation, please say "Ken Burnside" in the mirror three times so he can pull out AT:V and point out that neither setting is terribly plausible.

"Gravity well?" What gravity well? The thing's a big, hollow ball, not a planet. There's not enough gravitational attraction there to cause the sudden veering depicted in the film, unless the whole thing is made out of neutronium. Any starship officer who couldn't overcome an amount of attraction that at best wouldn't reach 0.01% of G deserves a full Force choke. No, that whole sequence was just silly. Cool looking, but silly.

one is boring and over-hyped, the other is star wars :D

47 posts and counting, oh dear! The posters original intent is as flawed, I believe, as his central premise and resultant conclusion.

Listen guys we're arguing the most important debate on the internet. Possibly the first flame war ever had on UUCP was about this. Parzival and I are following a sacred tradition, walking in the revered footsteps of those who came before us. This argument can and should go on for at least 4 more pages.

I'd even support it if Bill wanted to grant indulgences to participants in this thread so we can call each other nazis and degenerate into personal invective, in observance of tradition.

Of course, then JJ Abrams takes over both franchises and screws everything up. You know what? Maybe we are wasting our time debating this. That's it. I'm going outside to walk in the sun. And then… and then… and then I'm going to find a pretty girl and ask her out on a date.

stardestroyer.net

Trekkies lose.

Badly.

Old argument, not even worth discussing.