"Time To Consider A Low-End “Littoral Operations ..." Topic

…Variant" DDG-51?.

" the Navy is going to spend time thinking about new frigates or pondering "up-gunning" the Littoral Combat Ship (LCS), then America should also be thinking about developing a low-mix, austere DDG-51.

Look, if the U.S. Navy is looking for a low-end Destroyer, then why not use the excellent high-end DDG-51 as a starting point? Why are we just using an allegedly "flawed" LCS as the starting point? And is down-sizing the DDG-51 into a bare-bones, sweet-sailing and export-ready variant–a "Littoral Operations Variant" DDG-51-economically possible or operationally feasible?

A low-end DDG-51 might just work.

If CNO Admiral Greenert's Small Surface Combatant Task Force decides current LCS variants can't do the job without a major refit, then, heck, let's just see what an austere DDG-51 will cost the Nation if converted into a Littoral Operations variant. (Look, I still like the conceptual foundation for the LCS, but an up-gunned LCS is not the cost-effective, low-end, civil-spec mix-it-up platform I had originally supported.)…"
Full article here.
link

Amicalement
Armand

They could also buy of the shelf many of our allies build superb small combatant hulls and the money saved could be used to buy higher end US DDs and CGs. We could wire and arm the hulls as we wish.

Agree.

Amicalement
Armand

The expensive part of a ship isn't the hull.

I think when built in a US shipyard it would be more expensive then say in a German or UK one am I wrong in thinking that Lion?

Couldn't tell you, Mikey. I have no idea how many hours are involved in building a 100m+ Corvette, nor do I know the relative labor costs. Based on the Brits, shipbuilding costs appear to be pretty similar across all the developed nations, though. Cheaper if you go to Russia, India, or China, but who the heck outsources military projects to Russia or China?!?

The first hull of the Burke class cost ~$322mil, and had $778 USDmil in systems installed for a total cost of $1.1 USDbil (In 1985 dollars). Current hull costs appear to run abit more than double that, which is in line with inflation ($322 in 1985 dollars is $686 USD in 2013 dollars)

Burkes are do-everything boats, but a littoral-combat version would still need the ASW and self-protection gear, plus some kind of minesweeping capability.

In addition, the LCBurke would either need a full-capability Burke to provide anti-aircraft protection or have some pretty decent self-defense AA capability all by itself.

The littorals are nasty places to be, where even infantry-packed antitank missiles need to be considered as threats.

You have two choices if you are intentionally going into hostile littorals: build light and lose ships and crew (PT boats or missile-armed Fast Attack Craft), or build a beast that eats large chunks of your shipbuilding budget that can either take multiple hits and keep going or swat everything that comes it's way. Right now, the Burkes aren't quite at the level of "swatting everything".

I'd honestly look at making VLS-Harpoons and VLS-SLAMs (land-attack version of the Harpoon, which is steerable and retargetable in flight via datalink), stuff those into an early-flight Burke that's had minesweeping (or at least mine-detecting) gear added, since many of the later Burkes don't have all the ASW gear.

And then it's John Paul Jones time: "for I intend to go in harm's way."

OK I know very little about the navy, so maybe someone can help w/ this. Lion in the Stars has laid out the standard options: quality vs quantity.

What about a destroyer with escorts, even seaborne drones? Use those as your low-quality/high numbers ships, protecting the do-all be-all ship at the center. I know, I know, an escort for an escort? The Burke class is much more svelte, but its length and draft are similar to the HMS Dreadnought, so it's not completely ridiculous.

IMO, the only functional way to get into the littorals is some flavor of drones (because the casualties are unsustainable). You just can't pack enough armor and defenses to stop everything from hitting you or not doing mission-kill damage if it does hit.

I'd love to see something broadly comparable to the old 80ft/25m PT boats. Those did incredible work in the Pacific and the Med, at a pretty awful casualty rate.