"GB plastic arabs as sassanids?" Topic

Would the new gripping beast plastic arabs work for sassanid persians (obviously without islamic decals on the shields etc)?

I would say no.

It really amazes what the people who like plastic are willing to do to "make it work" no matter how much the figure is no where near what they want to use ir for -- like the guy I saw at a show who was using plastic vikings as Goths ??????
But, just let a metal manufacturer get one button or strap wrong, or a pose someone does not like and you would think it is the end of the world?
Oh well – by the way,about 10 companies or more supply sassanids in almost every scale that would mostly be correct? No offense meant --just an observation
regards
Russ Dunaway

Historically, a number of Arab tribes did serve as allies for the Sassanid, but would keep their native dress.

However its a moot point as to whether the current plastic Arabs would look right for Arabs from 250-700AD

If you could find some different heads, the perry mahdists might be a better bet for the levy infantry?

@OG: Where's the contradiction? Different people have different perspectives, and I've seen some critical opinions about plastics, too.

About 1/4 of the Sassanid army that defeated Belisarius at Callinicum were Lakhmid Arab cavalry. Some of the Arabs may have been equipped as Sassanids. Others were more native Arab in appearance. I don't think GB Arabs work very well for this period. I do agree that Perry Mahdists probably fit better.

I said nothing about "contradictions" nor 'critical oponions".
I simply made a comment about using substitutes for historical armies when the proper historical figures are available, when more often the not the substitutes are not completely accurate. Vikings as Goths ??????????
Regards
Russ Dunaway

Vikings as Goths ??????????

Doesn't seem that bad to me. if they are unhelmeted, or use head swaps, I wouldn't think they are that much different.

Russ, a lot of folk's figure choice has to do with what they can get easily through their local sources.
Perhaps this OP doesn't want to mail order, but they can get the GB stuff reasonably easily.
Plus the cost and ease of conversion with plastics make them an attractive option for many.
Myself, I 'd rather just mail order the best figures I can afford rather than make do.
I'll only make do if the figures are basically free and fit the 'good enough' category.

@OG: What you wrote implied as much, since you seemed to be comparing the reaction to historical (in)accuracy when it occurred in plastics vs. in metals. If that's not what you meant, then what did you mean?

It looks like about half the shields are teardrop shields. Can you outfit every figure in the box with a round shield, from the box?

Better to play with proxy figures than not play at all. I wonder how many games weren't played because the figures weren't "quite right".

Well considering most of the "official" sassanid figure lines have globe helmets for sassanids and the current opinion seems to be that they were only worn by nobles….

You could probably use some as Dailamis, but I'd say the almond shield is out, but mayvbe make some wicker shields and sand off the obvious Islamic headgear

You may find Wargames Factory Aechemenid Persians with big wicker shields make a decent fist of it with some having a big blob of green stuff on their heads for various odd Sassanid hats.

Vikings as Goths isn't too far off, a dark age hairy with a round shield and spear is pretty samey for 500 years, mixed in with a bunch of other different boxes of unarmoured stuff they'd be fine. Just forget the berserks and axes and too much chainmail….

Fwiw I am thinking of using some left over Sassanid Clibinarii as Ghulams for a c 9th century Arab army with these GBP plastics :-)

I just don't see the point of running around looking for something that could work or not work when there are so many other sources available that were done for that specific purpose-- regardless of the medium it is cast in?
Why not just use Austrian hussars for French and paint them different?
Only make Union troops and paint them different.
Use Prussians as Russians --what the hey, they both have blanket rolls
Make only one set of figures in a tricorn and they can be used for 200 years if they are painted correctly. or incorrectly.
The point at OG (many other companies also) has always been to complete a range at least to a reasonable standard. I can only imagine telling my customers to "go make your own" or "improvise yourself" ? It just all seems silly to me.
I know what I mean Skeptic -- just cannot understand what in the world you mean?
Regards
Russ Dunaway

Actually, as far as the Sassanid military is concerned our body of knowledge is quite small – especially compared to Napoleonics. A fragment here, a glimmer there. Not much really. A lot of inference.

Any generic foot in tunic, trousers and either bareheaded, in Phrygian cap, or spangenhelm could reasonably be used as Sassanid foot. Therefore for plastics Achaemenid Persians and many dark ages Saxons could be used. The shield might be the most important item, but even the shape of that is open to dispute.

Arabs aren't the best choice. The GB Arabs I have seen really are not suited to be used as many Arabs. The turbans appear to be a mix of Moroccan and Renaissance. In addition, most Arabs when fighting would either have worn a shorter tunic/topcoat, or pulled it up so as not to trip over it.

Then why do all the various companies go to the trouble and expense of making "complete" lines and ranges of "sassanids" when we really have no idea of what "Saasanids" look like?
I just know that the last 25 years I have always had a sense of responsibilty to my customers to at least try to REASONABLY complete a line that OG has released. I feel it is an obligation to the people who hand me their hard earned money.
I do not know how many countless times I have heard the consumer say -- "until you complete this line I will not make a purchase". I don't blame them either. It seems to always end up with the endless- "will this range of figures match with this range of figures or you can spend countless hours making conversions when it would have just been simpler to make the purchase from a completed range to begin with.
I suppose we must live in a day where we can just say --"heres a box of Romans -- you are on your own" and a good many consumers accept this? Oh well???
Regards
Russ Dunaway

I must say I 100% agree with Russ on this one. In the dark old days of my hobby experience it was difficult to get miniatures from time to time. But along came the internet and that was solved many moons ago. So that isn't an issue any more as I see it.
I am sure Russ gets enough complaints about not finishing a pack of left handed French engineers in sleeping caps to fill out his Napoleonic range. No wonder its a sore spot for him.
Dennis

Having converted an entire sub-Roman British army back in the days before anybody made them, and an 1897 Greek army (which nobody makes to this day), I've got to say this is not an experience that bears repeating. Converting one or two figures, usually as characters, is challenging and fun; a whole army, not so much. If I can convert with a paint job, well and good, if not, and somebody makes suitable figures, I'd rather buy them.

Grelber

The head gear and dress is really too late for Sassanid arab allies.

Firstly, I agree wholeheartedly with Russ. The fascination that some people have with converting plastics to be something that can be bought in metal totally escapes me…

That said, I had wondered whether the Gripping Beast Arabs were suitable for Arabs circa 1000AD to fight my Byzantines. Are they suitable or are they pitched for a couple of hundred years later?

Cheers,

Tim

"an 1897 Greek army (which nobody makes to this day)"

Have you seen Tiger Miniatures and Eureka's Evzones :)

I sort of agree with Russ* re using the right stuff that is available but when it comes to the press ganged peasantry from every locale of the Sassanid Empire, over many seasons and several hundred years, it really is unlikely they all look the same all the time and some licence is possible. Ditto hairy European Dark Age PBI.

There is also the mix n match potential of the new plastic stuff coming out as you can swop heads etc, so for eg I'm looking at how to build Poeni from the various Greek & Roman sets. Why? Because it's a challenge.

That said, those GB Arabs are just wrong for Sassanids, everything about them is Caliphate and later.

(*I am the proud owner of a 28mm Dark Age Hairy army with 5 big warbands, made with 5 big bags of various Old Glory Dark Age hairies mixed and matched together – including Vikings** (and a bunch of other odds and ends incl GW LoTR) – and it plays as anything hairy from c 400 to 1000 AD – just change standards and put certain shield patterns in the front rank)

** Bondi – the axemen of course only go go into the Viking/Anglo Dane incarnation of the force

When people agree with Russ I am not exactly sure what they are agreeing to. Are we suppose to slavishly use a range of figures because a manufacturer labels a figure in a certain way. Personally , I will never buy a Sassanid "levy" spearmen based on Phil Barker's drawing in his book 1st published in 1981.

Now as to the Sassanids – they controlled an empire that at times included some of the following peoples: Turkic, Indian, Iranian, Semitic, and others. Each people had it's own style of dress. The Iranians probably dressed quite differently than the native peoples of Iraq and the Arabs.

Most figures labeled as generic Arabs may have use for specific periods and regions, but generally aren't very good for before 1000 AD. If I was to choose a figure to represent the native Semitic foot of the Sassanid empire in Iraq it would probably be something like these Perries (but adding Phil Hendry's wicker shields):

It is possible that Perries plastic Sudanese tribesmen might work also, but I am not familiar with the box. I deeply apologize that they figures are not labeled as Sassanids.

Since these figures can be generically described as Arabs, I really don't think the original question is that far fetched. Yes, in some respects you can use Arabs in your Sassanid army, but not those Arabs based on other periods and regions.

Or you could use these:

link

Craig from the blog watchthatflank.blogspot.co.uk used Perry plastic ansar as the Arabs at the Battle of Raphia (heresy):

If there is a gripe about metals…. And this is just my opinion.

It's the weight. I have a huge array of 28mm metals and have stopped buying the metals simply because the weight continues to be an issue for storage or transport. I am not the typical gamer where that stays in one place to game (my group is separated by a thousand miles..etc.) so it pays for me to be as light as possible – hence, plastic is a boon for me and the sheer detail of plastics is icing on the cake.

Now, as to the OP, while the headdress might be different (spheric helms, etc.) the base "uniform" generally amounts to a simplistic tunic infantryman. This generally goes for everyone pre-industrial period. Does this mean you can use anything for any army? Well, it depends on your economy, but it pays for a better experience to approach the "correct" type of miniature.

However, pre-Industrial Age, we're talking low-tech cottage industries barely able to manufacture dyes, much less get into super complicated actual "uniforms." The modern interpretation of a given national look seems to be a modicum of homogenous clothing with the odd duck here or there and a goodly portion of motley appearance in the field.

So, yes, it is arguable with some work, you could make any remotely tunic-wearing, obvious-Mideast/Med, looking troop into something that would pass as a Sassanid or add them just as allies. The point as to whether it is worth the work or not is up to you.

I am disturbed at the action of bashing plastic by other companies unable or unwilling to look at plastics for the rank & file. Look, if your company cannot make plastics, fine, no harm, no foul. Metal has a place. But bashing on people for making something where it may not exist yet out their plastic collection is so obviously bias given your position, it's a highly specious argument. I've used Vikings as a host of conversion subjects and they look damn good enough to make people ask, "WOW! Are those available in plastic now?!"

Some day, maybe they will be. Plastic is here to stay. Either move along with it or be happy where you are. Regardless, hacking on anyone for attempting a project is hardly helpful nor is it endearing to those thinking of buying your metals.

A plastic = mass conversion (see Arfix magazine) B it was a question based on a plastic product C more cajoling less attacking on a individuals choices ( I myself have done a bunch of Victix later Napoleonic British for India with a head swap and paint job, correct for 1800? Nope but more than adequate- the same goes for their opponents, Sikh line troops 1846 in metal with no changes, again incorrect but more than good enough) this is not a plastic verse metal question at all. I've got OG figures great stuff they are but they are wonderful metal miniatures, not eggs and that's that. Each to their own I say.
Looking at the spruces for these arabs they look generic enough, top overcoat with baggy trousers basic, to convert use plasticard rectangular for shields in shape with added detail work (see Osprey books for good ideas) also the heads are a doodle to swap (see West wind head swap in the Arthurian range for one look see, but there are plenty others, look for metal spears at the same time ( good time to look at your bits box for bows and the like also the WF lybian lights box is good value for this, yes a bit of green stuff and hopefully some basic modeling skill, for the felt hats. A basic drab paint job and you have a 'decent enough quasi Sassanid foot type. ( BTW this will give you a few nights of modeling enjoyment- which sounds like you would enjoy.) Cheers happy modeling and gaming, I think most of the Perry plastics Sudanese mentioned are naked or near so (again lots of potential converting :)

Who "bashed plastics" -- a bit paranoid? Why do plastic fans assume any/all critisim is "plastic bashing? Did you read?
I just do not understand using figures that are not correct for the period/dress when they are avaiable through other sources. People say we are in the Golden age of wargaming -- its true -- hosts of companies have spent year providing every figure imaginable. It looks to me like a step backward to the 70's when the gamer was forced to convert.
Plastics have only increased OG.s sales -- I am a wargamer --not a modeler as I believe many gamers are.
I still rember the article in wargames Ill. -- (think thats where it was) where a guy was showing how to put Perrys plastic horses together and fill the seems -- WOW --what a bunch of green stuff and time !!!????
As far as weight I would just go to smaller scales which is my preference anyway.
I suppose a gamer could use WW1 germans as world war11 – if they really wanted -- after all --they all have trousers, jackets, rifles, helmets.
I don't care what my miniatures are cast in --I just want them to be correct and completed by the Company that released them.
regards
Russ Dunaway
P.S -- Does anyone know if the beautiful new "EARLY ARTHUIAN SAXONS" just released by Curteys can be used for viking, or germans,. or Goths, perhaps Lombards, early Persians ?

I just do not understand using figures that are not correct for the period/dress when they are avaiable through other sources.

I am still unclear, who is defining what is "correct" – the manufacturer or the consumer?

The question was will this work for that? The answer is simple, most likely if you are willing to do the conversion work to make it work.

The point Russ was trying to make was this, Why do conversion work when there are already other companies making that figure. The question of whether those figures are correct or not is always based on the consumer, regardless of the research done by the manufacturer.

What I find interesting is with the people that defend plastics via conversion work, is that assume everyone has the ability to be a good modeller and is able and willing to do the conversion work.

Note, that I said able and willing. This are two important facets when it comes to converting figures. A person can have the ability, but are not willing to take the time and effort due to other interest and commitments. Then, there are others who are willing, but do not have the ability.

As much as someone might think that Russ is arguing against plastics, I think that many of the counter arguments are really disguised arguments that state if I can convert figures then anyone can convert figures. So it doesn't matter if the plastic company hasn't made this army yet, these are plastic figures are close enough with added conversion work will become the figures I need.

And, there is a reality that needs to be faced with Plastics, and that is cost of production. The Cost of production of plastics means that many facets of army will never see the light of day because the need in the wargaming community does not equate to cost of production and sales. In order for plastics to expand and do lesser demand items, all other competition will have to go away. But, we know that it will not go away by the simple fact that gamers are now drooling over 3D printers.

Ok, I will try asking my question in a different way. Old Glory has a reasonably nice range of 25/28mm Sassanids. You offer a pack of clibanarii and a pack of cataphracts. Would it be "correct" to use these in the same Sassanid army?

The Gripping Beast Figures in question are neither clibanari nor cataphracts-- they are not even cavalry nor did the conversation have anything to do with army orginazation so I do not understand the question. Also this disscussion has nothing to do with OG unless someone chooses to make it so --- there are countless manufactures besides OG that make countless figures that the general public accepts as historically correct.

"Actually, as far as Sassanid military is concerned our body of knowledge is quite small --a fragment here,a glimmer there. Not much really. A lot of inference".

I totally agree --even makes more sense to not spend endless hours converting when no one really knows, Wouldn't you say oh boy?
regards
Russ Dunaway

As long as they are painted I don't care, happy to get a game in. Personally prefer metals but plastic tech is coming along and cost wise it might mean I can do another ancient army in 28mm.

Plastics do bring back good recollections – battles with airfix armies using rocks as missles and many a solo game with bangers/double happys/petards (I love the smell of burning plastic in the morning)…..

Some interesting – and confusingly made – points in this thread.

I suspect that the real question is "why buy plastics and convert them when metal figures already exist that are more accurate than almost any conversion will ever be?"

I would hazard a guess that the answer is a combination of:

- Cost. Plastics are so much cheaper than many metals that some gamers would rather use them and have less accurate figures than pay for accurate metals.
- Because it's "a project".

Logically I suspect that both are a bit bonkers and don;t really pan out, but hey, does anyone happen to know any wargamers who are mind-numbingly penny-pinching in some aspects of their hobby but overall spend vast fortunes on gaming stuff, and who also can display a disturbing degree of OCD-type behaviour when it comes to being drawn inexorably towards taking on over-ambitious, patently un-finishable "projects" that will clearly never see the light of day..?

:-)

Maybe this is the secret ingredient in the popularity of plastics – not only do they they pander to wargamers desires to save pennies, they also tick the boxes for "oooh, another project" too!

We have so much choice today, metal and plastic. And yet people still look at a box of figures and think, what else could they be used for? Why? The answer is, because you can. Same with rules. The minute someone brings out a new set of rules, someone is trying to adapt them for so slightly different period. There's nothing wrong with this behaviour, the behaviour I can't abide is someone denigrating someone else's opinion just because it doesn't concur with their own. c'mon chaps, repeat after me "YES we are ALL INDIVIDUALS…"
(See who's in quickest with the next line…)

"Maybe this is the secret ingredient in the popularity of plastics – not only do they they pander to wargamers desires to save pennies, they also tick the boxes for "oooh, another project" too!"

Absolutely – although my experience of designing the Plastic Carthaginian army from what is currently availsble is that the amount of extra plastic bits you have to buy for all the swapping largely negates the cost saving – plotting on replacing Legionary shields and heads, using their shields on unarmoured Numidians to use as Italiotes, taking Roman oval cavalry shields and putting them on more Numidians as Peltast thureos while taking Hoplite shields and putting them on the Roman cavalry for Poeni, and all the head swops….you get the picture – its a project alright, but it becomess way more time and money intensive than you expect, and lead starts to look very attractive :)

We were discusiing this at our club last night, the biggest plus everyone really wants from plastic is the weight saving, carrying 3 – 4 box files of 28mm lead is no fun. For that reason aloen I think it will be used for rank and file.

People will also make easy plastic conversions/"plays as" due to cost considerations IMO.

Thank you to the last two posters -- Unlike some others you actually read my question and did not just start yelling "why are you plastics a hater" !!!
You have brought up two very valid answers to my question -- both of which I somewhat agree with.

Obvious about the price factor --however in my world my time is very valuable and I think that is true for many people -- note the sheer amount of painting services that are around today and some years back there a precious few if any. The idea of sitting down to assemble --let alone convert --that is if (big if) you have the talent to convert is imposing to me. In the end I would loose money and it just is not an option.

As far as the weight issue -- I suppose --???? That was never an issue with me --I am however an extremely rugged and tough X Marine Vietnam veteran
who still walks/runs 6-8 miles a day so just never considered that -- If I did have an issues it was more with the bulk of the boxs of minis then the weight and that problem still exists with plastics -- guess thats why dollies and groupies were invented?

also -- I have spoken with many gamers (remember I do own a mini company with sales well over a million dollars a year so I do speak with a few) who have tried the "plastic and conversion" hobby who did become frustrated --not just with the process but also the constant reassembling of the figures that fall apart.

I admit I like metal -- the plastics I have seen in person -- they just look -- well --plastic? I think the resale is greater on metal. That being said -- I prefer 15/18mm anyway. heres why.
1. The figures today are as good as 25/28s
2. it is cheaper --even to get them painted
3. easier to transport
4. larger units/armies
5. table is larger with more room for movement,etc. there are actual flanks and not just wall to wall phalanxs.
6. I can purchase almost any army or troop type.

My second choice would be 10mm. perhaps that is why I do no understand the whole conversion thing?
regards
Russ Dunaway

AH my friend -- just as I cannot fathom how anyone would not recognize the little 18mm figures as the true little master pieces they are!!!
It is indeed, the true scale -- the one scale -- in fact, GODS scale !!!
regards
Russ Dunaway

Emperorbaz -- just as a thought after I read your post -- I asked a question -- I called no one any names -- I "denigrated" no one. I did not say that this was "wrong behavior".
I just am amazed that people go to the trouble to reinvent the wheel -- I simply asked for some explanation.I did not say they did not have a right. I did not say they were strange or weird or anything like that. I did not suggest that the army should be brought out to stop this behavior.
Perhaps it may be, that sometimes people want to find a reason to be offended because they are looking for one -- thus read things into sentences that just are not there?
I guess I could be offended and feel "denigrated" by what you imply -- all because I asked a question that annoyed you?
I'm not though -- it is silly and there are much heavier issues in my world to be offended about.
regards
Russ Dunaway

I guess different people like different things.

I tend to agree with Russ's point that plastics sometimes seem to get a pass where metals would not, perhaps because they are percieved to be cheaper or easier to modify, or maybe it's just that plastics modellers are less inclined to get grumpy about small details.

I know as a metals man myself (primarily) I couldn't think of anything worse than modding figures. I get annoyed just having to drill out hands for a spear! As a consequence of this I'm probably pickier about figures than someone who's handy with an xacto and the green stuff. I'm sure there are a lot who share my prejudices and are not shy in expressing them, hence Russ's chagrin.

Cheers,
Aaron

I keep coming back to this thread(almost like looking at a car wreck as you pass when you know you really shouldn't) simply because I just don't understand the people who insist on making my simple question about converting something into something that already exsists into a big battle about the preference of mediums, imagined insults,offense, denigration,etc,etc?
Perhaps its just because I am not a modeler,never have been a modeler,and do not want to be a modeler --- I am a wargamer. If I can buy a bags of figures that are provided to me as Vikings, I will buy them -- I don't want to make my own.
I did not say it was wrong for people to want to do that --I just don't get it. Earlier today I read another thread where a guy wants to turn Mongels into Seljuks -- thats his right and business -- it is my right to just not get it and voice that?
Perhaps get some thicker skin o chaps.
Regards
Russ Dunaway

Green Dog trumpet -- "upward max of three figures" --get around much the last 15 years? The two OG viking ranges alone have over 200 varients, now throw in Gripping beast, artizan, Foundry, Crusader,etc --all of which fit with one another in my army. Also, all of these ranges had some very animated figures that gave plenty of action that would be hard pressed to out do with any specific conversion.
Once again -- it seems like for the 10th time -- this is not about plastic vs metal for me --some just seem to insist on making it that --- appears to me to be a bit over sensitive and paranoid to me. If I like metal and you don't --and you want to voice that --so what? Also if you want to spend endless hours of cutting, (your own fingers also) gluing, fiddling,etc – so what -- I accept that --just don't understand it?
Also. you say you are a "designer". Most of us mortals are not blessed with that ability so that does not apply to the vast majority. Nor would I have the time, or want to take the time to sit down and covert the over 800 viking figures in my own personal viking army.
regards
Russ Dunaway

Among my 15mm armies I have a group of a few dozen Essex armored horse archers. This mixed body includes Islamic Persians, Khazaks, medeival Russians, Northern & Southern Chinese, Byzantines, and Seljuks. I have another similiar body of lancers that include Georgians, Byzantines, Arabs, Serbians, Russians, Persians, and others. I will use all of these in a variety of different armies.

This picture is NOT of my figures, but the concept is very similiar:

I have never had anyone say that they were not correct, or that they were inapproriate. And it is not a 15mm thing, because I would have no issues doing the same thing in 28mm. I guess I wouldn't be the right person to comment whether one could use Mongols as Seljuks – especially considering that by the end of the 13th century Seljuks were adopting Mongol equipment (and Mongols were adopting many items of Persian equipment).

I think when it comes to conversion, that also depends on the wargamer and what they want to accomplish for their army.

Personally, when it comes to wargaming, I don't have time for conversions. I have a desire to build large armies. Therefore, as a gamer I will defer to manufacturers that carry the figures I need at the time to build the army that I am trying to build.

And, by large armies I am talking 1,000 figures are more. I know when I was only gaming ACW and using the old Rally 'Round the Flag rules, my goal was to build a Brigade a month, which was about 100 figures. By the end of the year I had enough painted miniatures for each side of the battle to run a game and supply at least 5 other players with units. And, in order to accomplish this task, it meant painting some brigades, selling them so I could purchase enough miniatures to paint three more brigades.

As a gamer, the issue I have with conversions and even painting little master pieces is time. I find that gamers taste change fast, which means that if I want to game the period of interest, I better have the needed army fast. Take to long to convert and paint figures, by the time you have the unit, the group is on to another period and another interest.

"AH my friend -- just as I cannot fathom how anyone would not recognize the little 18mm figures as the true little master pieces they are!!!"

That was true 20 years ago, when my eyes were sharp and my waist was narrow :)

Nowadays I prefer 28mm – I find (as well as the ease of seeing 'em) that I do like the extra detailing I can do, then got into a bit of modification, and so now I am quite looking forward to doing a lot of gluing different plastic bitz together to get something that looks different. It doesn't make sense with time or money saved, for me its a "project" I'll probably do just the once.

I have 3 other 28mm ancient armies already so I am in no hurry, it may be different if it was my first and I was desperate to get on table…

Like Delbruck, for my less regular forces I tend to mix stuff up if its regionally and temporally adjacent – greater variety looks good, but also trends did get around, while old ways were retained – and armour wasn't cheap so you kept a good piece if it still worked. Hence mixing and matching nearly every (Old Glory, as it happens) Dark Age era figure set into my Hairy Germanic horde – and feeling quite happy at using them for everything from Visigoth to Viking. Trick is to remove the obvious ones of any era (and use appropriate standards of course)

(BTW Russ – your 28mm Arthurian range IMO is really outstanding)

"Regular" state supplied armies I tend to keep more uniform though, using different manufacturers to get pose variety under the logic that state supplied armours of different units may have varied.

On the weight issue, its not a problem if you have a car – but a train/bus/tube and mile walk from/back to a station is a different matter entirely – definitely where 15mm and plastic score!

Old Glory,

"It really amazes what the people who like plastic are willing to do to "make it work" no matter how much the figure is no where near what they want to use ir for -- like the guy I saw at a show who was using plastic vikings as Goths ??????"

That sounds disparaging to me. It suggests people who like plastic are less inclined to warrant detail as good or better than metals. If you did not mean it as so, you might have mentioned something disarming. Then one wonders if you read what you type?

Then one would read your various other comments here and I guess I'd surmise you are either highly defensive for some reason or do not like being called on bias or some explanation that is not apparent.

In answer to your question, no, I am not paranoid. Just disturbed why a company representative appears, delivers a rather scathing statement about someone's intent, and then acts wounded when confronted with questions on his same opinion. If this were a conversation with some large company like GW, I'd imagine such a representative would be burned at the stake. But then, GW likely wouldn't be so stupid as to toss an opinion either way. Who can say.

I'm not sure why you mention your fitness level. Unless your fitness level is enough to haul all the metal miniatures needed for a good game 250+ miles at a run, the distance running doesn't mean a great deal if you want to get there in time to play a game. I'm not sure the action of running would be very good anyway as metal miniatures are fragile and they'd be damaged by the jostling.

I'd rather use a car. But even then, if the unnecessary weight can be eliminated, then it seems a good idea. If detail can be held or improved, excellent. It seems like a good idea in storage as the heavy shelving needed to support the multiples is a significant aspect.

You have a solid miniatures line and little or no reason to be defensive against the new plastics or their fans. I find your commentary unfortunate, but then we may not agree. I will hope someday it will change.

Augustus;

I doubt very much that Old Glory was being disparaging, nor was he attacking the medium of plastics. If you knew the owner, you would also know that he began in this business doing conversion work on miniatures for another company back in the early 70's.

40 years have past since that time, and a lot of companies have come into existence who make most of what individuals are now buying in plastic only to convert them into something that already exist in metal somewhere eles. Thus, the question, "Why convert when anyone of a dozen companies already has what you need?"

Some may answer, it is the cost. Sure, a lot of metal companies have raised their prices. But what of the time, energy and addition cost of buying miniatures for the pieces that you need for conversion?

For years I was an avid-ed reader of Fine Scale Modeler. There was one issue that contained an article by a gentlemen that did conversion work on a German WWII vehicle, in order to make it more accurate. The point of the article was that this conversion work was rather simple and anyone could do it. In the next issue was a letter to the editor commenting on that article with a simple, "What is the modeler suppose do with the $500 USD worth of model kits that are now missing parts?

The basic question on the mind of Old Glory had nothing to do with "why buy plastics", but "Why convert something when there are so many choices available already on the market?" And, if the person who began this thread had not used the word plastic but stated that he bought Arabs from Foundry or Perry's or any other company and asked if they could be turned into Sassanians, he still would have asked the question.

"Why convert?"

1. Cost
2. Weight
3. As some people just "like" doing conversions, because;
a/ they enjoy modelling
b/ they think they are cleverer, and have done better research than the next manufacturer so can create a more accurate figure by doing so
c/ they have more time than money

And because wargamers as a group are more prone to exhibit the behahiours and attitudes inherent in 1/ and 3/ than "normal people" :-)