"But, it was such a LOVELY wedding reception!" Topic

I particularly enjoyed the speeches.

I found the episode a bit slow until the wedding. As I tell anyone who is new to the books/series- whenever someone gets married…it doesn't end well.

I'm a bit tired of the torture porn with the Boltons. I preferred the book alluding to it than having us spend every week going through it directly.

best reception Ever!
its my favorite part of the books as well.
I didnt see Penny though, I hope they dont write her off.

I didnt see Penny though, I hope they dont write her off.

Yes, Big Bang Theory weddings make great TV.

I didnt see Penny though, I hope they dont write her off.

I assumed she was the pint-sized Robb Stark, the only one with a covered face. I'm not sure they can do w/o her, for character development of [SPOILER], but I've been wrong before.

I was ticked that Jamie spars with Bron & not Ser Ilyn. Why pay a man not to talk when you could just use a tongueless recluse?

Who poison the King?
It was the "Spanish" guy? Or the clown who took Sansa with him?

Who is now the next King?
Jeofrey has a little brother by memory (?).
In that case , the "Hand of the King" rules until he became older?

What about the new Queen?
She can rule?

I still don't understand well what the younger Stark son is searching (?) and what importance have in the history.
Understand John Snow and Kaleese with the Dragons, but not about the group with Hodor.

What about the Stark Army which fought against the Pirates?
Now they obey to the Boltons?. Or they became guerrilla?.

Sorry for too many questions.

Amicalement
Armand

My answer would be to read the books:)

Don't ask Martin, he has apparently forgotten most of the story threads.

I was ticked that Jamie spars with Bron & not Ser Ilyn. Why pay a man not to talk when you could just use a tongueless recluse?

Because the actor who made such a creepy Ser Ilyn Payne was diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer.
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I imagine that with replacing the actors who play Daario, Tommen and the Mountain, that they felt that Bron was a safer bet.

Armand, you are asking too many questions. the Spoiler Police will be calling on you!
Yes, if you have to know the answers, read the books.

I will answer one question. Joffrey the Just and Margaery the Maid have not had the "bedding", so the marriage is not consummated. So, she is technically not the Queen.
Of course, Renly never consummated his marriage with her either.
She would just be a Dowager Queen, like Cersei, but Cersei is also the Queen Regent.
Yes, Tommen is next in line, although he has an older sister.

Armand, without spoiling it:

BRAN

He is following his visions – he is searching for the three-eyed crow. He has no FIRM reason why – he THINKS the three eyed crow will give him back his legs.

The book makes it more clear than the HBO series, but basically, Jojen and his sister fill in a lot of mystery and blank spots regarding his visions; BUT even they really does not know why, they just know they have to help him find the three-eyed crow.

As to what/who the three eyed crow is and the significance/what it really means… read the books.

THE KING

Echo John, "Yes, Tommen is next in line, although he has an older sister." And the older sister is in Dorne, which DOES recognize succession by, "next blood," not, "next MALE blood," like the rest of the seven kingdoms.

STARK ARMY

The books also make it pretty clear that the northern armies are dwindling in numbers due to the protracted nature of the war in general; disease, death, desertion, casualties. Plus the threat from so many various enemies, requiring the need to spread the army thin to "hold" areas, etc.

While Robb had a pretty large army to bring to bear, by the time the Bolton come into play, it is a fraction of what it was, and cannot bring large numbers to play for a "thrust."

BTW

JUST finished reading Dances With Dragons LAST NIGHT.

Jeez…

I was ticked that Jamie spars with Bron & not Ser Ilyn. Why pay a man not to talk when you could just use a tongueless recluse?

As the OFM noted, there's the actor's health. Also, conversations with mute people usually work better in print than on screen.

In a similar fashion, when a major character goes deaf in the book "Shogun" or a time, in the mini-series the character is blind. Better dialog that way.

The Three Eyed Crow is Brynden Rivers, and I know that means absolutely nothing to you.
Did I see a glimpse of Coldhands in the preview for next week?

Dance with Dragons has one of the very few "feel good happy moments" for Stark Loyalists, other than the Purple Wedding.
It's on page 111 of the hardback edition.

Because the actor who made such a creepy Ser Ilyn Payne was diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer.

Ah. I did not know that.

I have to say, there have been a lot more casting change-overs than I would have thought. I hated Mountain #2. And though I thought that Daario #1 was too Fabio, he seemed a lot more in keeping with the LSD trip-pimp from the book (and his persona) than this rather unassuming fellow we have now.

Also, conversations with mute people usually work better in print than on screen.

I think Jamie already talks enough for two people. Still, it would have made a good scene. But who doesn't love Bronn? I had lamented that in the books, he became a (IIRC?) wholly off-screen character after the Blackwater. Also, he's good for Tyrion to play off of.

I though the Shae break-up scene was a bit off. Am I the only one who thinks the screenwriting just isn't as good this season?

Does the Mountain live yet?

Martin wrote this episode, so he is seemingly OK with any plot changes from the book.
Like the Shae break-up scene. Perhaps he realizes that her actions later were a bit lame, and he wanted to get her REALLY annoyed.
I never liked Shae anyway.

And….
The world reacts:
link

I think Jamie already talks enough for two people.

There's that. :)

But yeah, I agree with you: I'm glad Bronn is more of a presence than he was at this point in the books.

Yea, I like (the HBO version) Bronn as a character too. Jerome Flynn has played him wonderfully.

I am really hoping that Arya remains as a focal character per the books and want to see how they handle her rather winding, long path…

Not sure they can do it with the current actress, which is a shame – Maisie's great.

But IRL, puberty has smacked her upside her frontsides, and in the series, she is still young and pretty much a waif.

Should this be in the "Needs Less Boobies" topic?

Many thanks for your guidance John and Mardaddy!!

Amicalement
Armand

Has anybody besides me noticed that Martin (and HBO) managed to get a bunch of people to celebrate the murder of a 15-year-old boy?

A pause while you let that sink in.

Yep, it's fiction, and I don't really have a problem with it— one power of fiction is allowing cathartic release through revenge fantasy fulfillment on a (conveniently) irredeemable character. In short, write 'em nasty enough, and we won't care what you do to 'em, even though in real life we would be appalled. But it's amazing that dramatists can make us hate a child that much, isn't it? Are we that cruel, or is it just that internally we know this hate is safe— that it's not against a real person, and the violence isn't real, either? And is that conscious knowledge, or subconscious, or both?

Just some interesting thoughts I had. (And, yeah, when I read the book I had that same cathartic reaction of "he deserved it, and so did Cersei." But considering it later, I indeed wonder about that reaction.

In many cultures for many an age, past age 12 Joffrey would be considered an adult, so I'm not wringing my hands over his death.

It also ain't too likely he'd have an epiphany any time soon and say "Oh wow, I'm a sociopathic murderer; I should abdicate and seek help from some maesters."

But I get that glee over anyone's death can seem in poor taste, even if fictional.

Nope. Not feeling cruel, guilty, horrified, reflective, or anything at all.

In fact, I am only slightly ashamed that when I read the "purple wedding," considering all Joffreys history, actions, intents and attitudes – I thought he got off easy.

Look at how old Alexander the Great was when he started his murderous career.

Has anybody besides me noticed that Martin (and HBO) managed to get a bunch of people to celebrate the murder of a 15-year-old boy?

Well, in his final moments, they also managed to show him as a pitiful little boy dying in his mother's arms – just like in the novel.

It's just that a lot of viewers (but by no means all of them) didn't notice that, or perhaps chose to ignore it. And I agree, all that gloating on the internet is a bit much, and misses the nuances of the story as it was portrayed on-screen.

As for the "cathartic release through revenge fantasy", there wasn't much of that, in this case. In my opinion.

For starters, Joffrey's death wasn't nearly as messy as most of the "gloaters" would have liked it to be. See the YouTube comments, for instance.

Also, he wasn't killed by one of the fans' favorite badass characters. For example, it would have been much more cathartic if he had been skewered by Arya Stark, or roasted by Dany's dragons.

Lastly, the triumphant relief of the viewers was immediately undercut by the realization that Tyrion, one of their favorite characters, is going to be framed for the murder. Again, some of the viewers perhaps chose to ignore that, but it'll sink in soon enough as the season progresses, I guess.

Interestingly, the murder of the Starks at the Red Wedding conforms much more to the "cathartic revenge killing" trope. Look how Roose Bolton even got the final badass one-liner ("The Lannisters send their regards!") before finishing off Robb Stark.