"SYW Color companies" Topic

So in trying to decide how to base my line regiments, I've been trying to get a handle on where the colours would be in formation. The only information I can find is a bit later, from Baron Von Steuben's Valley Forge drill manual which, as I understand it, has the colour ensign in the first rank, stepping up and leading the regiment in an advance. Seems risky, but then again war is naturally a risky business.
Is this correct for the SYW period, and once the regiment was prepared to fire did the colours drop back behind the lines? I see some paintings showing the colours behind the line, and more protected. Any information on how this worked greatly appreciated.

If memory serves, the Austrians did this:

When not in battle formation, ensigns carried the colours at the front of the battalion. So for parade, and possibly marching to the battlefield.

But when in formation (lined up on the battlefield), the colours were carried by NCOs at the rear of the formation, and the ensigns stood beside them, handed polearms to fight with. Similarly, the drummers also stood to the rear of their individual companies.

Cheers

Each company had a flag and the senior company had the King's colours. In battle, all of the flags were brought together in one place in the center of the battalion, placed at the rear.

Duffy's "Army of Frederick the Great" has a helpful diagram of a battalion that indicates where all of the supernumeraries were positioned. I don't have a copy at hand, so I can't provide a more specific answer right now.

Having had a look at Duffy's book, the colour party stood in the centre of the battalion. According to the diagram Augie mentions above, they stood in three ranks. From the front rank going backwards, NCO – Ensign – Ensign – NCO, then NCO – Ensign – NCO in the middle rank, and finally NCO – Ensign – Ensign – NCO again in the third rank. Giving five ensigns, one for each company flag and the one for the battalion's "Regimental" flag. Directly in line behind these, and some distance behind the battalion stood a rank of five woodwind players. The diagram doesn't indicate where the officers above the rank of Captain stood.

The diagram also indicates that the colour party stood proud of the front of the battalion's frontage. This is also mentioned in Duffy's "Instrument of War" book on the Austrians, where he says "In the Prussian infantry spatial direction was given by the colour party, which strode out ahead of the battalion, though it is uncertain whether such was the case in Austrian practice" (p402).

I hope that helps

Here's a Prussian organisation (I fixed the original):

Cheers

Last year Franconicus wrote (from the 1749 Austrian Regulations):

"According to the 1749 reglement (Regulament und Ordnung des gesammten Kaiserlich-Königlichen Fuß-Volcks, Vienna 1749), the colours are carried…

- in parade: by the ensign, in the middle of the bataillon, one pace in front of the first rank – so, an officer's coat (but the illustrations depicting an officer (sash!), the coat-tails turned back).

- in order of battle: by the führer, two paces behind the last rank, the ensign beside him, carrying his (the ensign's) springstock, the "Fahnen-tragers" (privates obviously) carrying their musket and the führer's springstock. So: an NCO in battle."

Cheers

Of course this is all well and good. But…

I still want to know how long the Austrian flag poles were. :)

Of course this is all well and good. But…

I still want to know how long the Austrian flag poles were. :)

Wow, I've just looked that up in several books I have. It's obviously something of a mystery. Plenty about the style but nothing about the substance. Hmmmmm.

I know. Not wanting to derail this thread, I'll just direct any interest to flag pole length this way:

TMP link

And returning to this thread, it's interesting (if true) that the Prussian standard bearers (unlike their Austrian counterparts) led from the front in battle.

I like my flags a bit bigger than the real ones.
So decide how big you want you flags.

What I do is cut the wire longer than I will possibly need.
Drill hands, insert pole… paint, varnish.
I don't attach the top thingummy until the very last.
Drill hole for pole in finial and pva lightly to toothpick so you can paint and varnish it.

Cut flag out, pva round staff and adjust.
Make sure the ends match – it's easy to have one a little shorter than the other.
Form the folds round a paint brush handle.
Once dry, cut the staff with a little bit sticking up past the flag.
Attach the finial.

I put my flags in the centre front, with an officer between them. Although each Bn is a bunch of elements.

And you can see what I mean about matching the two sides of the flags going a bit sku wif on that picture.

Very nice! Well done!

@FIWMax
Most armies had its colours placed behind the centre of the line. That holds true for Austria, France, Britain, Hannover, Brunswick, and Hesse-Cassel. These are the ones that can be confirmed. Most other armies were just alike. If the Prussian 5 flags placed within the line system was unique, I don't know. There may have been more, though I never read of any. Placing the Flag bearers in front of the line was done on parade only, to my understanding. The Prussians had a method of placing a flag bearer plus two NCO's on either side, stepping out 10-20 paces of the line's designated regulating battalion. This 3 men squad would give the direction of advance to the entire line of battle. It was usually the most right battalion. Confirmed is it at Leuthen. Frederick personally briefed the Fahnenjunker what direction he has to take (of Meyerinck's regiment if I remember correctly), so that the army would follow him all confirming to his direction. He was a very important individual, really – for as long untill he got shot.

That's really interesting Christian. Thanks for that. I did wonder how much 'truth' there was in the notion of the Prussian standard bearers with the battalion's colours being the ones advancing in front of their battalion in battle. Your account sounds more like a unique standard bearer with a particular kind of purpose-suited flag perhaps, rather than the bearers who carried the battalion's precious colours.

@AONeill – excellent guide to flag assembly. Excellent value, thanks.

Thanks all for the great info. Any good sources, drill books etc to find some of this stuff in?

Some titles have been mentioned:

All by Christopher Duffy…

Army of Frederick the Great
Army of Maria Theresa
Instrument of War

Cheers