"Life in a Medieval Hamlet" Topic

Not sure how to approach this topic, but I am looking for a set of rules that will capture the flavor of what I describe below:

I am Lord Barron of a chunk of land somewhere in, say, Germany.(or Italy, Spain, etc). I have a fortified manor house or small castle. My villagers produce revenues for me but since I have a decent sized river on my land, I can collect tolls from roads and river traffic from those that traverse my lands. I owe my "status" to the King of the time that rules over by neck of the woods. I have to use my armed men to fight bandits, collect taxes,tolls and ocassionally send some off to fulfill my obligations to the King when he goes to War. I also need them to protect my lands from outside forces.

I want to game at the level of that Barron in miniature. I expect there must be some skirmish rules out there but I need one that develops the tradesmen,peasants and what affects their "productivity" of the times. Players could play the part of the citizens and tradesmen; another bandits; another an invading force; in a big game, I would command my retinue in battle for my King, etc. Passers by using my roads and waterways could be Non player characters and the income from that aspect rolled for by turn(s).

I guess I am looking for part role playing and part skirmish to big battle rules. Does such an animal exist? If so, where can I discover more about such a set?

Being stationed in Germany and visiting many surviving examples of castles, reading their history, rise and fall, I got an itch I want to scratch in replicating actual feudal societies here. Those Perry figs and Old Glory offerings in 28mm are calling me to partake in this adventure…(Think Life in the Black Forest here. Those Hozenhollern's didn't get rich overnight y'know!)

Any serious suggestions will be gratefully welcome!

Thanks!

Tom Dye

You might be squarely in RPG territory there.

I would probably use the "Dominion" rules from the BECMI edition of D&D. It covers managing land at the barony level, with taxation in three values (both coin and service/non-coin varieties), raising troops, etc. in a decent level of detail.

It also ties into the "War Machine" in the following chapter that is an abstract mass combat system if you don't want to break out the minis.

Thanks for this, darthfozzywig! My background has been strictly pure historical, mass battle types- very little role playing. What is the name of the BECMI edition of D&D stand for? Are "Dominion" and "War Machine" titles of suppliments for D&D? Hey, when it comes to RPG's you are going to have to spell it out for me! (Please?)

What you describe is really close to exactly what I seem to be after! (Heartfult thanks if it is!) Are these books still available?

Thanks for the fast response!

Tom

Hi Tom,

You might find some useful bits at my blog, "Storm Within the Empire". Set in the Holy Roman Empire of the 15th century there are posts covering commerce, banking, farming which may be of use.

link

The project began with the Duchy of Bavaria which then existed as four domains. The more I researched, the more the project grew with the addition of rival duchies.

The whole project was set on the back-burner so I could focus on an ancients project; 3rd century Rome and her enemies.

Cheers,
Robert

A game like this would be a lot of fun. I agree with Darth that you may be in RPG country here--I think an umpire might be needed to oversee the different aspects you mention, particularly how they relate to one another (ie. I raise my taxes which increases my capabilities in the short term, but how do my peasents react to this?). I don't roleplay any more so am afraid I can't offer suggestions. I'll definetly keep an eye on this thread though, as such a recreation could be both fun and really interesting.

While I know this isn't what you are looking for--I understand the "need" to use figures--are there video games that cover such a topic? A Civilization-like game set in the Middle Ages? It wouldn't surprise me if one were out there. Though it wouldn't satisfy the modelling itch, it sure would be portable!

"BECMI" refers to the old "Basic-Expert-Companion-Master-Immortal" series of D&D rulebooks from the 80s.

They've been repacked as the "Cyclopedia", available in PDF here:

link

"Dominions" and "War Machine" are just sections of the rules.

They are largely independent from the D&D rules as a whole, although the money (gold pieces) and some pricing assumptions are built into that economy. It could be used as-is, or you could scale things to match some "historical" values if you're really trying to create some sort of simulation. That would take some work, however.

It depends if you want to be the only player in your "baron" situation; or if you want different barons fighting each other.

If you are almost alone, it's a RPG…

However,

I want to game at the level of that Baron in miniature. I expect there must be some skirmish rules out there but I need one that develops the tradesmen,peasants and what affects their "productivity" of the times. Players could play the part of the citizens and tradesmen; another bandits; another an invading force

Then you could be the game organiser, and organize things for other players, but in that case you should be prepared for defeat, otherwise it would not be interesting for your guests… :)

Civilization-like game set in the Middle Ages? It wouldn't surprise me if one were out there. Though it wouldn't satisfy the modelling itch, it sure would be portable!

There's Medieval II: Total War. Very fun, and as close to the look of a miniatures game in motion as you're going to get right now. When you raise and train a unit of 60 spearmen, for example, there are actually 60 spearmen in the unit when you fight a tactical battle.

Can't really tie that into a tabletop game well, however, since the AI will have other ideas. :)

Thanks for all the great ideas! I really appreciate the link, too, to check out! The miniatures (being 28's that take a while to paint up) is the perfect scale for this. The "quest" to find the right personalities adds yet another dimension!

When visiting castles, fortified manor houses (which are called "Schloss" or "castle" in english, and monasteries that remain today as museums to the 14-1500's, the stories puts meat on the bones of the fact that history is stranger than fiction! To fully understand what life was like in those times seems "strange" to a person in the 21st century, yet perfectly normal to those in the times. Perhaps one day the shoe will be on the other foot 500 years from now?

I was able to acquire a Hudson and Allen large castle over here in good shape for a pittance from a game store in Ulm about a year ago. Since then, my interest in the period has grown and after many visits to castles since then, I am discovering the same storylines at each one. I think it would be exciting to devote some time , with friends , in developing a miniature world together where each has a role to play. If at my house, I am the Lord and master and my buddies play the parts. When at my friend's house, I play the a subserviant role where he is lOrd and master. Eventually, the gamers will fracture into factions and voila, we have alliances as in Diplomacy. Each of us needing something from each other to advance our causes, like in Settlers of Catan. Played out in miniature, it will cost me X amount of wealth to field 30 archers, So all of this sort of dovetails into this "concept" I have, but rooted in the real history rather than made up for a game in a mythical world.

A good point about a moderator/referee/bookeeper: Someone will be needed to keep tabs on the strategic situations like money, alliances, chronicle the game, etc. Imagine- You cannot build on to your villages unless you have carpenters, stone masons and blacksmiths. You will need to find such minis. Have to build s blacksmith shop to make the tools OR seek tools to be purchased from a player that has them for sale. Etc. All the time, your pesants need to be fed (and so do you need to eat) the need for figures farming , etc will be needed. now when you go to war, you exchange that farmer, stone mason, etc. for an armed soldier figure. When he gets killed in combat, you cannot have use of that tradesman until another happens by, you kidnap one, or coerce the tradesman son(s) to take up dad's trade. Once approved by the gamemaster/ref, then you can use that figure to start being a productive member of your closed society.

When attacked, these all must be on the table and become hors de combat as well! Imagine the effects of a siege!!!

Anyway, this is where I want to go with this idea and appreciate any and all the suggestions! Please, keep them coming as this is a new direction for me in gaming! I see a need for some really creative NPC character generation charts and a 3x5 index card file for all my "Subjects" about to happen! (Which will add depth to my painting pleasure/motivation of the miniature if I roll up stats before I start to paint Herr Schmidt!)

Thanks, guys!

Tom

Darthfozzywig: I am downloading "cyclopedia" as I type this. Thanks for the help and explanations. I think this is the place to start from. I should get an idea on how to rate skills and combat abilities from the info contained here.

Of course, you will have to train your men to fight. Untrained fighters will just die quickly against trained soldiers. When they train, nothing gets produced. So already I see decisions that will have to be made and timing- self-imposed parameters to get the most from my subjects. Now, will they be "willing" subjects?

Oh, this is going to be fun!……

PM me if you have any questions as you read through – I'll be happy to bounce ideas around.

The pendragon rpg is just what you want. It develops your pc through all his live, you can play with your sons or grandsons. It has some books to build your dominion, a small barony, with economics and events like enemy invasions, visits from your lord that can ruin you, hunting accidents, etc…
Also the "harnmanor" suplement for harnmaster, it has all the economics to run a, well, a manor..

Check this link:
link

link

This is a link to the harnmanor suplement. I own it and its a superb book. I must say that i was a bit focused in medieval economics a lot of time ago when i played rpg

There is the ' Warrior Knights ' boardgame by Games Workshop , it's out of print but you may be able to find a copy. It deals with playing a Baron , although at a higher level than running a village.

link

Also there is the Excalibur board game , it's set in Arthurian Britain but it deals with village and manor economics rather than questing.

link

+1 on Pendragon, what you described in the first post is thaat game's 'Winter Phase ' to a tee.

Interesting developments. You probably have to adapt rules and to devise a simple economical system to fit the dimensions of your gaming tables and the terrain features you have.

Basic economic system is quite easy to devise, it has been done before; such as: one field gives one load of wheat, which you must carry to the mill to get one load of flour, then to the baker for one load of bread, which can feed X people or can be sold at the market for X money etc.
Inhabitants, as you mentioned, can be raised as badly-trained militia, and perhaps better trained, better armed it costs money, etc.

For a simple combat system, you can adapt Argad argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html

Thank you all for this outpouring of information! I need now to sift thru it all to see what others have done. I will post again ( new thread) after I have wrapped my head around some of these concepts. This can be done! Judging from the hit count, 378 as I type this, there seems to be a following in this concept! What is old is new again?

Thanks to all once again!

Tom

Tom,
I can see why here would be a good following on this concept. While you intend to apply it to southern Germany in 1500, it could just as well be applied to a daimyo in feudal Japan, an akritai on the borders of 9th Century Byzantium, or one of the lords listed in Homer's Catalog of Ships in the Iliad, just to name three.

Grelber