"WWII- 15mm or 20mm" Topic

With the plethora of plastic I am considering getting going with some WW2- Eastern Front. I cant dcide though between 15mm and 20mm…..can anyone help me with my decision?

How big is your table and what are you going to put on it for a game?
I use and like 20mm for skirmish gaming.
I reckon you want to drop to something smaller than 15mm if you want to do large games.
10mm or micro.

Depends.

You will only get a ton of people chanting their own preference, and a few telling you to go with 6mm! ;)

Partly it will depend on two things – What scale of game you wish to play and whether use of existing scenery is a factor.

After that, for me the wide range and quality of 20mm beats 15mm everyday. While 15mm is coming on in leaps and bounds, it still cant quite compete with the mass availability of 20mm. Price wise, again depending on the scale of games you wish to do, 15mm may edge slightly, but if a skirmish game you may want the added realism of 20mm.

I only ever associate WW2 with 20mm. I cant see playing it in any other scale given the wide range of stuff available and the fact that the best figures are available in 20mm from the likes of AB Figures, Elhiem, Wartime, Battlefield/Blitz, CP Models/TQD, Under Fire Miniatures… to name a few.

But pictures say it better…

Oh and Im biased… I love 20mm WW2.

You might consider joining the Guild;

guildwargamers.com

Huge resource and forum for 20mm WW2 gamers, and lots of galleries to further investigate the beauty of 20mm (and we have some showing off 15mm too!).

But do consider existing scenery, other local players, and the scale of game you wish to recreate, all play a part in deciding where to go.

And whatever your decision, make sure its one you are happy with!

Oh, and never let it be said that Im not fair and even handed…

Some 15mm that I have painted for PSC;

Your spoilt for choice with either scale imho, especially for ostfront.

Hi,
I agree with Piers. 20mm has a vast choice and some of the figures are outstanding. We try to to game in both scales (but we're having a looong history in gaming and model purchasing). The smaller engagements are done in 20mm but some larger and really huge scenarios are invariably played in 15mm. Not only because we have large collections in the Red Barons club but it also gives us more 'room' on the table to manoeuver. More akin to what we think of how WWII battles were and you do avoid the parking lot syndrome with your AFV's side-to-side.
My 2cents.
Henk

If it is an affection for plastic that moves you, then 20mm (20mm tends to be the choice of traditional/older collections and although there is a lot of metal available, traditionally involves kit making …).

15mm has tended to be more for the wargamer than the modeller/kit maker and has been chosen by many newer converts.

Then there are people like me, who dabble in all scales and formats. Most of my WWII is 15mm because I am drawn to how well 15mm matches detail with scope to give a genuine feel of big spaces without compromising the close up (as Piers shows) …

Additionally, I tired of building kits years ago. Although PSC and Zvezda now mean plenty of plastic is available for the 15mm enthusiast, it is 'rapid build' in style not like the old Airfix or those 'recut everything first' Eastern European kits.

My WWII wargaming is mostly Eastern Front and for me 15mm is the runaway winner (over 10mm as well as 20mm) it just looks and (mostly metal and metal/resin) feels more convincing … but that's just my instinct and if you actually like plastic then 20mm's your scale.

Phil
P.B.Eye-Candy

Piers you had me at Hello! :)

20mm I think based on those piccies!

Thanks guys!

You are welcome mate, I don't think you will regret 20mm as a choice…

I agree with every thing the guys have said (& not just because I own 1 & 1/2 20mm companies) I also have a collection of 1-200 eastern front stuff for those big "clash of armour" games . Even CoC seems to be being played in 20MM more & more even if it was originally designed with 28mm in mind. With CoC bringing out more Orbat's all the time & battle group filling in "periods" you will be spoilt for rules choice & off the shelf scenic's are also getting better & better. I am sure if you go for 20mm you will have a ball.
Ian ( Shell hole & 20mmZone )

Yes Jason and try the BattleGroup series of rules – they were designed to work equally well at 15mm and 20mm. I will be running a demo game at the Hall of Heroes soon….

Oh, and need you ask? 20mm!

I painted two side in 15 mm and sold them. Just did not enjoy painting them. I then started units for Chain of Command in 20 mm and have painted 4 platoons in 6 months with different supports.

Winter War Finns from Warmodelling

British Engineers from SHQ
Grenadiers from PSC
German Engineers from CP

British Paras from TQD

British Infantry from AB

Would never change scale now.

John

More at link

Both are really too close to make much of a fuss either way, figure out which size is used the most with the local group and go with that is my recommendation.

They are both fantastic scales, with a wide variety of figures and vehicles, and extensively supported rulesets and player bases. You can't go wrong with either one. The main consideration you should look into is what one fits better with your existing terrain collection? Also, how much space do you have? Even that isn't a true issue, because I based both my 15s and 20s on pennies, so they had the same footprint regardless of figure size. I liked them both, and can only say you can't go wrong either way!

I'm a fan of 15mm individually based personally, as I like peter pig figures, the support is increasing (PSC and the like) and it looks 'right' on the table IMHO.
Piers you have to stop using your ability to help argue your case. It's unfair.

Hey… I did show some 15mm too! ;)

I made the 1/72 1/76 20mm decision way back in the late 70's when the nice 15mm stuff of today was but a pipe dream. 20mm is a great scale for both miniatures and terrain. Look at all the model railroad stuff that is at your finger tips. With a 6' x 8' game table you can get a ton of miniatures and lots of terrain in the game.

If you like painting figures and modelling is as important to you as wargaming then its got to be 20mm as they look fantastic.

If you want a lot of people to play with and you are not so bothered about the look of the game then 15mm is the most popular.

If you are a wargamer at heart and you like the space to manouver your forces then its got to be 10mm or 6mm, that is unless you have a huge table and a huge budget to be able to afford large 15mm and 20mm armies.

Oh, and never let it be said that Im not fair and even handed…

Piers you have to stop using your ability to help argue your case. It's unfair.

He does rather weaken his case by showing equally lovely stuff in 15mm. If I didn't know those Cromwells were 15mm I'd be hard pushed to tell, just from the pics.
I sold all my 20mm many years ago and haven't regretted it. As I game in 15mm in other periods the advantages of having just 1 lot of scenery plus the storage benefits, I can get loads more 15mm into an equivalent space, made it a no brainer for me.
The bottom line is don't worry what scale just get Piers to paint all your stuff and you will be good to go! :-)

I have played many systems in 15mm for years, and still do, but I have committed myself to pretty much redoing my collection in 20mm. I'm well into it and I have no regrets.

And Piers is mostly responsible for the change-over! 8)=

Jerry,

You are as bad as my wife for blaming me for things!

Though if you ever make it to the Emerald Isle for a holiday, the game is on me!

I think the key is to buy lots of toys, of any scale, and have a bucket load of fun while doing it!

1/72 20mm all the way. Unless you want 6mm…

Having just returned from the hobby store, it just renforces my vote for 20mm. I picked up a bunch of fantastic Italeri 1/72 buildings and bunkers. They grow that line every month. Then you have Airfix, Revell, Hasegawa, Heller, Italeri, MatchBox, Pegasus and more model companies (including some fine European firms) for buildings, vehicles and figures.

Plus the multitude of 20mm figure manufacturers (some mentioned above), and wargame scenary companies like Hovels, Frontline, Reality in Scale. Even companies that cross scales (e.g. Gamecraft) almost always make 20mm.

And if that is not enough, there is all the HO model railroad (trees, buildings, trains, etc) that you can pull from. There is a good reason why HO is the most popular model railroad scale and one of the reasons is the look and realism.

Mike

I started in with Flames of War, so my not-28mm ground gaming has all been 15mm.

I don't paint as well as Piers, but here's a much-reduced Soviet Engineer-Sapper Battalion to consider:

BN command and two "companies," both down about platoon strength.

8x DP "record player" MG teams.

Faustniki stands, with literal armloads of 'fausts.

Hrm… I need to retake the picture of my Flamethrower teams, it's fuzzy.

Yes, those are based for Flames of War, but they're equally usable for Battlegroup Fall of the Reich. Especially once I include the platoon I have individually based on pennies, to "make change" as needed with casualties.

I wargamed with 15mm & did several shows with it, BUT it just did not have the presence of 20mm. It quickly became very apparent that the paying visitors, appreciated the bigger scales for the eye candy ! I gladly returned to 20mm & as Piers has deftly demonstrated, the quality speaks volumes !!!

I started in 1980 playing with 20mm plastics on a 9'x5' table. It is all I knew how to game WW2 for 10 years. For a large table, IMHO, 20mm just cannot be beaten, I find 15mm on large tables I cannot recognise the figures/vehicles as well as 20mm.