"Naval Thunder Splashes" Topic

Some students ahve asked me to run a WWII naval miniatures game, so I bought some US and IJN ships from Panzerschiffe, and after doing some research, I settled on Naval Thunder as our ruleset.

I like NT a lot: simple enough that even a new player can command several ships but detailed enough that players have to worry about specific systems.

My question involves the penalty that derives from splash markers to to-hit rolls. For those unfamiliar with the rules, a ship receives one splash marker for every enemy ship that targets it with its main guns. Each splash marker gives a penalty to hit that ship.

I'm fine with the rules mechanic, but I was curious as to the rationale behind it. I will certainly have to deffnd it when I explain te rule to my students. Did gunnery splashes really obscure a target vessel to such an extent that a hail of gunfire could render that target virtually invisible? Did these splashes interfere with radar targeting systems?

thanks in advance

Gunnery in Naval Thunder represents continuous fire over a set period of time. It doesn't represent a snapshot of just one volley. The splashes are a game mechanic representing the difficulty of the gunnery directors trying to figure out the adjustments to fire when more than one ship with similar caliber weapons is firing volleys at the same ship.

That is why it only matters for main guns, not secondary weapons. These would not interfere with adjustments to fire for main weapons. It is not the actual splashes obscuring the target, but the redirection of fire over time from the gun directors.

Naval gun fire directors at the time looked for the shell splashes of missed shots to correct their fire. If the were more than one ship with the same size guns firing, you could not tell your splashes from theirs. Making it harder to correct fire.

Right, most fire control at this time was still based on observing the fall of shot and making adjustments to the elevation and deflection of the guns to move onto the target.

Right.

So, if you miss both long and short, which way do you correct for the next volley, for each vessel, or even for each turret from the same vessel?

To further aid identification, the shells had dyes in them, which when they exploded, and mixed with water, would color it a bit, making identification of their shell splashes easier to identify. Once you saw those, you could then adjust as desired.

Didn't the Japanese either experiment with or make use of colored shells? Or was that a misconception I've seen quoted in various accounts of US sailors. My recollection (without looking) is that I read it in "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" where the Japanese BBs had colored charges of some kind so they could differentiate the fall of their shells between the two ships.

For Dr Mark, to elaborate on what the others said, just in case you aren't familiar with how the ranging worked, they would fire a broadside at an estimated range and bearing. If the whole salvo was long or short they'd adjust it. If some of the splashes were long and some were short they had straddled the target, and so they would go to continuous fire on that range and bearing since the shells falling in that volume of space would potentially hit the target.

You can see, that if multiple ships were all firing at a single target there would be little means of telling one ship's fire from another's. In my opinion, this rule is one of the essentials for a WWI or WWII naval game. Its lack of inclusion is one of the things that made me lose interest in Mongoose's Victory at Sea.

Good luck with the Young 'uns. Miniatures can be a great way to bring history to life for them.

This is just the kind of learned response I have come to expect from the community here on TMP. This clears up things for me a lot, and I will pass your knowledge to my students when they inevitably ask.

So, if you miss both long and short, which way do you correct for the next volley, for each vessel, or even for each turret from the same vessel?

If you're the only ship shooting, you don't adjust! At those ranges, you're looking at a shell landing within a pretty large circle, so hitting both long and short means you're on-range.

If someone else is shooting, then things get interesting.

Also it arguably shouldn't interfere (at least not as much) with radar-directed gunnery, but I'm not sure how Naval Thunder handles those rules.

-Will

Rasar gives you a to hit bonus at all ranges.

Actually over concentration effects radar controlled fire too. The problem comes with sorting out your shell returns from everyone else's (and from the target return). Add in the tendency to 'correct' off the target to the shell returns (so much so as to lose the target altogether) and you begin to see that radar fire control was not the be all, end all that some think it to be.

As for the way fire was corrected: By WWII, the USN (and most others) had adopted the ladder salvo method. The way it worked was you fired your salvo with each shell on a preset pattern that resembled a ladder (with each shell a preset distance apart). When the 'ladder' straddled the target, you could immediately sense what the range was and go into 'fire for effect'. Sped up acquiring targets significantly.

As for secondary battery fire interfering with the main battery fire: It did affect the same way as main battery fire. Unless the range was ridiculously close, 'sensing' the difference between the two batteries was very difficult. Remember, at any kind of range (say, 10k to 20k yards) your target is very small (even with the best rangefinders).

As for colored shells: Just about all navies had started using colored shells during the '20s and '30s. Normally, each ship within a division would be assigned a distinctive color. Still at the ranges involved, even colors tend to wash out when seen through a rangefinder (hence, why they fell out of favor).