"Panther tank" Topic

I agree to a degree about PSC MGs for vehicles. They are slightly overscale but look OK when painted. Plastic scale MGs like those by Revell and Dragon are very very fragile and can easily be broken as I have found! The PSC is probably a bit of a compromise with a bit of ruggedness built in for handling as they are wargame models and not scale model kits .

I agree about the extra strength aspect and also think that on some of the other models they do look ok after painting. But on the Panther I think part of the problem is also with the mount…

The mount is very bad.

I'm not convinced on the handling thing.
It goes on top of the turret – ok you could catch it but as you handle the model I would think you pick it up and turn the turret by the sides.

I would like psc to do a plastic sprue of weapons and mounts.
Reasonably accurate weapons and mounts.
Then at least a customer can have the option.

I have some wee friends mg34 on order. I'm thinking maybe bend a wire mount and solder on.

Going back to the handling thing I think is a question of were you game. If you have to pack your stuff up every time you game say at a club even with the best will in the world you can easily snag those delicate MGs. Cal 50's on top of Shermans can just be as bad in this regard . As a rule wherever possible I replace them with Metal. Although I do keep some of the PSC ones:)

Which versions carried the mg 34 and which the mg42?

And how fragile are the hasegawa, revell, and dragon ausf g machine guns?

Thanks,

MU

Can only speak about Revell and Dragon Mgs. As these are accurate scale models the barrels are very thin and therefore very delicate. The mounts are also delicate but not quite as bad.

Great care will be needed when transporting your models . A few of my original plastic MGs do survive but that is because I base my vehicles which does afford them a bit if extra protection.

At the moment, I carry my tanks to games in a4 box files with an extra partition put across the middle.
The bottom is lined with mag sheet and each model has a piece of black plasticard goes under the tracks where it's pretty much hidden. A piece of steel paper is glued to the plasticard.
This stops them moving round inside the box and the only issue is players picking them up.
I may switch to "really useful" plastic boxes though.

Thin plastic barrels tend to bend rObvious;ather than snap if you just touch them.
I've had no problems with mg34.
50 cal on shermans are a bit more of an issue since they're higher off the turret.
If I do any more shermans I'm probably going to substitute a broom/brush bendy plastic support for the styrene one. Superglue the 50 cal and it'll tend to fail at the break if someone catches it.

As to which panther would have mg34/42.
Short answer is almost all mg34 or nothing.

Am AA mounted mg was not standard. Think in terms of a luxury option on your car.
If you look at pictures of panthers then many have no aa mg but a fair few have just the mount.
The co ax and co drivers mg are both removable.
In the event of air attack you could potentially remove either and mount it on the turret.
Others, the crew scrounged an mg from somewhere.
In most pictures I've seen a panther with an mg it's an mg34 rather than an mg42 BUT a crew could scrounge either.

I find there is always some carelessness or poor decisions made that mars their kits for me. That's just my opinion, I think they do sloppy research sometimes.

Amen to that, brother. Something I have been bleating about for ages. I think some of their stuff is absolutely great, but other kits just have careless issues I really cannot ignore.

It's not like they're technophobe dinosaurs who insist you manually write out your order on paper and post it snail mail.
Or
A huge company that has done it one way for 60 years and takes 10 to make any change to their process.

They're small lithe and techno.

Post picture of prototype.
Tread heads would be all over it like a rash and point out the obvious stuff.
Read feed back.
Fix obvious.
Sorry guys… only time for one iteration…
Filter out stuff doesn't matter so much….
Done.

The market MUST be somewhat competitive. The cost of delivering product a month or two later has got to be way less than the extra profit you get from offering the one cheap Sherman that hasn't got obvious errors or bad simplifications.

Sloppy is the word.

The MG fitted in tanks was not the standard infantry model. It had a heavier armoured barrel. The norm was to dismount the hull mg and fit that to the coupla and if you check photos you can see it is 99% the armoured barrel showing. I doubt very much crews would lug around a 'spare' MG just to fit it on the coupla because if you are exposed firing at an aircraft or attacking infantry then you are not long for this world.

Some crews definitely had a regular mg34 mounted – I flicked through the Concord Panther earlier and there are photos.

The Panzerlauf barrel is just a kind of smooth mg34 barrel without any obvious perforations. But somewhat armoured.
link

I would imagine that by the time you disconnect the gun, pass it up and screw it on the bracket on top that any plane is likely to be already on it's way.
Which is presumably why some crews chose to always have a gun there. They at least had the chance of using it if they wanted.

You can buy replacement brass ones if you have a stumpy one on a model.
link

I think wargamers tend to think of more guns = better.
Whereas of course the real bloke in the real cupola is more likely to be focussed on ducking any bullets heading his way.
Standing on the rear deck of a Sherman to use the 50 cal seems pretty risky.
I'm not Audie Murphy though.

I looked at the Concord book and on page 19 the Panther certainly has the armoured barrel gun fitted on the couple.
The photo on page 46 is not too detailed but it 90% looks like the armoured barrel.
This subject pops up every so often on ML and the though it has been shown that sometimes there was an MG 42 and the standard Infantry version fitted the vast majority were as per regulations-unship the bow MG and fit that.

The couple mounted MG is for use in rear areas where you might meet slight opposition. If you find yourself firing it at enemy infantry then things have gone badly wrong. As an AA defence it was slightly above completley useless.

My two Revell Panthers came with MGs and cupola mounts, but I ended up placing those on bits box for the time being, since they look like they might be a bit prone to breakage in actual use. Never mind that a lot of Panthers did not actually have them.

I have read an account where a captured German officer complained about the lack of AAMGs on German tanks, compared to what was mounted on US tanks. Those mounts and MGs for them would have been relatively low-cost addition.

However, on small scale battles tank commanders should spend their time primarily directing the rest of the crew, rather than blazing away with MG from their cupola.

Post picture of prototype.
Tread heads would be all over it like a rash and point out the obvious stuff.
Read feed back.
Fix obvious.
Sorry guys… only time for one iteration…
Filter out stuff doesn't matter so much….
Done.

Agree 100%. Sounds so simple doesn't it?

Well, they are pretty busy, having to respond to frantic customers pestering them (guilty)

Also, the Hasegawa Panthers aren't that good are they? And do Revell's Panthers come with decals,I mean for the G version.

And how good is the Dragon Panther early version with zimmerit?

And which Ausf G production versions came with zimmerit? The early or late?

Thanks,

MU

And which Ausf G production versions came with zimmerit? The early or late?

I answered you in this same thread when you asked this back on 13 Mar…

1) All Revell Tank Kits come with Decals

2)Early Version of the G type done by Dragon is possibly the best on the market at the moment and includes Zimm.Some commentators state that the angle of the glacis plate is at the slightly wrong angle so its not perfect but doesn't bother me . Plenty of spares come with this kit but not as easy to obtain .
3) Late Gs didn't come with Zim as they were produced after Sept 44.Early Gs came with zim.

A presume that you know the difference between a late and early G .

No Problem

Just hope we can finally put this thread to bed:) I luv Panthers but this thread has dragged on and on and on.

I am sure some of us are just repeating ourselves :)